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  3. Does #capitalism still deliver, or does it only destroy our living space for #profit?

Does #capitalism still deliver, or does it only destroy our living space for #profit?

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humanitycivilizationnewschinapolitics
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  • scriptkiddie@anonsys.netS This user is from outside of this forum
    scriptkiddie@anonsys.netS This user is from outside of this forum
    scriptkiddie@anonsys.net
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #1

    Does #capitalism still deliver, or does it only destroy our living space for #profit?

    Anyone who is not completely blind can see the slope is getting steeper. We are like on the Titanic. The iceberg is right ahead. Everyone stares at it like a deer in headlights. Frozen. Or weirdly fascinated. No one moves.

    Capitalism does not even need #democracy. It runs just fine in #China. The #rich get richer at breathtaking speed. They gain more power every day. Meanwhile, many people are exploited. Some even go hungry.

    #Infrastructure falls apart where it brings no profit. Gains are privatized. Losses are shared by everyone. Capitalism works great for arms races and wars. It also works great for rebuilding after. Only #peace seems to bring too little profit.

    #Diseases without profitable drugs are ignored. Human suffering does not always sell well. But social-media #algorithms that shake democracy? Very profitable. Public goods, #privacy, data protection, #ethics — all side characters. Hard to monetize. The #future and sustainability also feel optional when today’s shareholder payout boosts #power and profit.

    Why do we believe that people driven by greed and contempt will build a better future? Maybe #humanity does not really care about democracy or ethics. Maybe it only cares about #consumption. Ads promise that buying things will make us #happy. And of course, anyone against capitalism should throw the first #smartphone.

    Running water, electricity, full supermarkets — all nice. Until you notice the food is packed with sugar and salt. Fresh fruit and vegetables carry poison. The oceans are overfished. The fish comes with #microplastics as a bonus. Wild animals vanish, pushed out by humans. Only farm animals multiply by the millions. They #suffer. #Nature breaks.

    This story does not feel like it has a happy ending. Not if we keep scrolling and call it progress.

    #civilization #question #news #system #matrix #politics #economy #business #freedom #mankind #collapse #apocalypse #war #terror #military #crisis #pollution #extinction #emissions #climate #disaster #security #fascism #earth #food #poison #problem

    madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • scriptkiddie@anonsys.netS scriptkiddie@anonsys.net

      Does #capitalism still deliver, or does it only destroy our living space for #profit?

      Anyone who is not completely blind can see the slope is getting steeper. We are like on the Titanic. The iceberg is right ahead. Everyone stares at it like a deer in headlights. Frozen. Or weirdly fascinated. No one moves.

      Capitalism does not even need #democracy. It runs just fine in #China. The #rich get richer at breathtaking speed. They gain more power every day. Meanwhile, many people are exploited. Some even go hungry.

      #Infrastructure falls apart where it brings no profit. Gains are privatized. Losses are shared by everyone. Capitalism works great for arms races and wars. It also works great for rebuilding after. Only #peace seems to bring too little profit.

      #Diseases without profitable drugs are ignored. Human suffering does not always sell well. But social-media #algorithms that shake democracy? Very profitable. Public goods, #privacy, data protection, #ethics — all side characters. Hard to monetize. The #future and sustainability also feel optional when today’s shareholder payout boosts #power and profit.

      Why do we believe that people driven by greed and contempt will build a better future? Maybe #humanity does not really care about democracy or ethics. Maybe it only cares about #consumption. Ads promise that buying things will make us #happy. And of course, anyone against capitalism should throw the first #smartphone.

      Running water, electricity, full supermarkets — all nice. Until you notice the food is packed with sugar and salt. Fresh fruit and vegetables carry poison. The oceans are overfished. The fish comes with #microplastics as a bonus. Wild animals vanish, pushed out by humans. Only farm animals multiply by the millions. They #suffer. #Nature breaks.

      This story does not feel like it has a happy ending. Not if we keep scrolling and call it progress.

      #civilization #question #news #system #matrix #politics #economy #business #freedom #mankind #collapse #apocalypse #war #terror #military #crisis #pollution #extinction #emissions #climate #disaster #security #fascism #earth #food #poison #problem

      madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
      madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
      madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.net
      wrote sidst redigeret af madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.net
      #2

      @scriptkiddie

      Sooo...social democracy is out of the question? I mean, it works pretty well for us here in Scandinavia, but it seems that the world is going all in on one or the other, with no room for compromise.

      Well, I guess you all do you, and we will do our best to help you pick up whatever pieces remain.

      scriptkiddie@anonsys.netS 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.net

        @scriptkiddie

        Sooo...social democracy is out of the question? I mean, it works pretty well for us here in Scandinavia, but it seems that the world is going all in on one or the other, with no room for compromise.

        Well, I guess you all do you, and we will do our best to help you pick up whatever pieces remain.

        scriptkiddie@anonsys.netS This user is from outside of this forum
        scriptkiddie@anonsys.netS This user is from outside of this forum
        scriptkiddie@anonsys.net
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #3

        @madsenandersc - I do not deny that Scandinavia has some of the best democracies in the world. People there are also among the happiest. Still, my view of the future turned me into a small, cynical beast.

        Take Norway. It may have the best welfare system on Earth. Sounds great. But it is funded by oil pumped from the sea. Oil that feeds climate change. And let’s not even start with the seal pups that were killed for years. Like many places, Norway also has a twisted elite. Some were even linked to Jeffrey Epstein.

        Then there is Sweden. The country hurt its own image in the case of Julian Assange. Its military sometimes feels like it runs its own side quest. Submarines appear near the coast. Fear spreads. The public watches like extras in a tense thriller.

        Denmark treats refugees harshly. Food there is also very expensive. And Denmark could have treated the people of Greenland much better, much earlier.

        Can I count Iceland as Scandinavia for a moment? During the banking crisis, Iceland behaved badly too. It never fully dared a true reset. Even though it saw, more clearly than most, how ugly capitalism can get when criminal bankers run the show.

        Sometimes the “happiest region on Earth” feels less like a utopia. More like a shiny Black Mirror episode — bright surface, dark plot, and a warning hiding in plain sight.

        madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • scriptkiddie@anonsys.netS scriptkiddie@anonsys.net

          @madsenandersc - I do not deny that Scandinavia has some of the best democracies in the world. People there are also among the happiest. Still, my view of the future turned me into a small, cynical beast.

          Take Norway. It may have the best welfare system on Earth. Sounds great. But it is funded by oil pumped from the sea. Oil that feeds climate change. And let’s not even start with the seal pups that were killed for years. Like many places, Norway also has a twisted elite. Some were even linked to Jeffrey Epstein.

          Then there is Sweden. The country hurt its own image in the case of Julian Assange. Its military sometimes feels like it runs its own side quest. Submarines appear near the coast. Fear spreads. The public watches like extras in a tense thriller.

          Denmark treats refugees harshly. Food there is also very expensive. And Denmark could have treated the people of Greenland much better, much earlier.

          Can I count Iceland as Scandinavia for a moment? During the banking crisis, Iceland behaved badly too. It never fully dared a true reset. Even though it saw, more clearly than most, how ugly capitalism can get when criminal bankers run the show.

          Sometimes the “happiest region on Earth” feels less like a utopia. More like a shiny Black Mirror episode — bright surface, dark plot, and a warning hiding in plain sight.

          madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
          madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
          madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.net
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #4

          @scriptkiddie

          You can find issues with every government on earth at some point in time, and I am not denying that we have had our fair share of failures for sure, and some are still ongoing.

          However, you were talking about fundamental structures, not individual governments, and I think that is an important distinction.

          We have had governments trying to rectify failures of the past, trying to make amends for the things that have been done to others, things that should never have happened. All of that has nothing to do with capitalism or communism.

          What I am trying to say is that our societies are trying to make sure that everyone has a bed with a roof over it, tha nobody goes to bed hungry and nobody dies from easily treatable diseases.

          I am not saying that we are in any way perfect, but we sure as hell do not let banks throw people on the streets and leave them there to freeze to death, or let hospitals deny treatment to people who cannot pay or allow companies to work people into the ground for profits without throwing the book at them.

          In my view, capitalism is money before people. Communism is power before people. Neither is acceptable in 2026.

          requeteche@tupambae.comR 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.net

            @scriptkiddie

            You can find issues with every government on earth at some point in time, and I am not denying that we have had our fair share of failures for sure, and some are still ongoing.

            However, you were talking about fundamental structures, not individual governments, and I think that is an important distinction.

            We have had governments trying to rectify failures of the past, trying to make amends for the things that have been done to others, things that should never have happened. All of that has nothing to do with capitalism or communism.

            What I am trying to say is that our societies are trying to make sure that everyone has a bed with a roof over it, tha nobody goes to bed hungry and nobody dies from easily treatable diseases.

            I am not saying that we are in any way perfect, but we sure as hell do not let banks throw people on the streets and leave them there to freeze to death, or let hospitals deny treatment to people who cannot pay or allow companies to work people into the ground for profits without throwing the book at them.

            In my view, capitalism is money before people. Communism is power before people. Neither is acceptable in 2026.

            requeteche@tupambae.comR This user is from outside of this forum
            requeteche@tupambae.comR This user is from outside of this forum
            requeteche@tupambae.com
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #5

            @madsenandersc @scriptkiddie

            Are the both of you implying that democracy and (any form) of Martkwirtschaft are mutually inclusive, or mutually exclusive, and or that none of them have the capability to create a permanent culture?

            madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • requeteche@tupambae.comR requeteche@tupambae.com

              @madsenandersc @scriptkiddie

              Are the both of you implying that democracy and (any form) of Martkwirtschaft are mutually inclusive, or mutually exclusive, and or that none of them have the capability to create a permanent culture?

              madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
              madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
              madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.net
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #6

              @requeteche @scriptkiddie

              I have no idea what you are asking, to be honest. 🙂

              As for what I wrote, I'm not implying anything - I'm simply saying that neither pure capitalism nor pure communism works, and to be frank, it has been more than proven already.

              The problem is that neither takes the human nature into account. Human nature is to be instinctively trying to make your offspring better off than the neighbors.

              If you live in a society where everyone earns the same, regardless of what you do (the theoretical communistic society), the only way to do that is to use your position (political power, if you like) to make that happen.

              If you live in a society where buying your way through things, making money becomes the only factor that matters, even at the expense of others and their well-being, whether it be legal or not.

              In either case, corruption will follow with a certainty very close to 100%. You can't abuse power or make money at the expense of others, without someone having to turn a blind eye at some point.

              I'd say that both the USSR and the USA have proven both sides of that coin in spades.

              If what you are asking is whether you cannot have a market economy in a democracy, or only can have it in a democracy, I have no idea - I'm a simple photographer, and that question is waaay above my paygrade. 🙂

              requeteche@tupambae.comR 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.net

                @requeteche @scriptkiddie

                I have no idea what you are asking, to be honest. 🙂

                As for what I wrote, I'm not implying anything - I'm simply saying that neither pure capitalism nor pure communism works, and to be frank, it has been more than proven already.

                The problem is that neither takes the human nature into account. Human nature is to be instinctively trying to make your offspring better off than the neighbors.

                If you live in a society where everyone earns the same, regardless of what you do (the theoretical communistic society), the only way to do that is to use your position (political power, if you like) to make that happen.

                If you live in a society where buying your way through things, making money becomes the only factor that matters, even at the expense of others and their well-being, whether it be legal or not.

                In either case, corruption will follow with a certainty very close to 100%. You can't abuse power or make money at the expense of others, without someone having to turn a blind eye at some point.

                I'd say that both the USSR and the USA have proven both sides of that coin in spades.

                If what you are asking is whether you cannot have a market economy in a democracy, or only can have it in a democracy, I have no idea - I'm a simple photographer, and that question is waaay above my paygrade. 🙂

                requeteche@tupambae.comR This user is from outside of this forum
                requeteche@tupambae.comR This user is from outside of this forum
                requeteche@tupambae.com
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #7

                @madsenandersc

                Anders wrote:

                both sides of that coin in spades

                I'm not aware of that saying, what does it mean?

                Anders wrote:

                I'd say that both the USSR and the USA

                Are we actually really talking about US vs USSR

                Aren't these concepts, tales and issues kinda as old has the written story of human kind?

                @scriptkiddie

                madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • requeteche@tupambae.comR requeteche@tupambae.com

                  @madsenandersc

                  Anders wrote:

                  both sides of that coin in spades

                  I'm not aware of that saying, what does it mean?

                  Anders wrote:

                  I'd say that both the USSR and the USA

                  Are we actually really talking about US vs USSR

                  Aren't these concepts, tales and issues kinda as old has the written story of human kind?

                  @scriptkiddie

                  madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                  madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                  madsenandersc@social.vivaldi.net
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #8

                  @requeteche @scriptkiddie

                  Both sides of the coin - the United States of America is probably the ultimate example of how ruthless a society can get, if money is the only thing worth pursuing, while the former USSR was the insanely corrupt poster child for the original communist society.

                  In both cases most people was thrown under the bus by either billionaires with a bunch of politicians in tow, or power hungry politicians who would throw dissidents and political opponents in the deepest jail cell available or simply "disappear" them for good.

                  Were there good people in both societies? - yes. Were they able to hold on to power long enough to prevent a deep corruption of their society? - clearly not.

                  You're right that this is not something new per se, but the way modern communication works makes it so much easier for the ideals, the concepts to get in front of a much, much larger audience than ever before - and with much more impact, not least because of the sophisticated way the communication can be done.

                  It's getting harder and harder to spot AI generated content that is designed to manipulate and persuade in ways the world has never seen before. Yes, we had manipulated photos, audio, and later video, but the tools for creating manipulative content has never been this widely available to ruthless people.

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