DDos (Distributed Denial of Service) attack against BlueSky a few days ago: The whole network goes down.

[jesuisatire@social.tchncs.de]

@jwildeboer
> My suspicion is that this is by design.

You mean on purpose?

Probably.

Maybe just tunnel view, incapability of not being able to think outside the box ...

@agowa338

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@jesuisatire ActivityPub/ActivityStreams, the protocol behind the fediverse, is a W3C open standard,. ATProto/Atmosphere is a corporate thing with no defined open process to update/change it. So I consider it to be a proprietary thing. Want to call that tunnel view, unable of thinking outside the box? Fine with me. @agowa338

[jesuisatire@social.tchncs.de]

@kkarhan
Maybe that's why @delta is ruining itself by skipping email?

And no, not going to discus this, I simply will not update #deltaChat anymore and in any case wait for a hardfork of it or learn to code if necessary.

@jwildeboer

[jesuisatire@social.tchncs.de]

@stefan
> if we continue working on

Ultimately this is about the engagement of the "work force", and I'd like to believe that the fedi with it's nearly 20 years of experience is way better positioned and has already proven to be enshitificationresistant.

Even the fact that the main guru has already left blue sky is just another proof, including the detail that he didn't came over here.

@jwildeboer

[kkarhan@jorts.horse]

@jesuisatire @jwildeboer WDYM?
Last time I checked @delta still used #PGP/MIME with #IMAP & #SMTP…

• The whole reason to use #deltaChat is to avoid having to setup yet another Server (Which is the prime reason against #XMPP+#OMEMO, #Zulip, #RicketChat and #Matrix)…

[cnrco@infosec.exchange]

@jwildeboer exactly! thats the difference between a decentralized protocol and a truly decentralized infrastructure: the size of the blast radius

[jesuisatire@social.tchncs.de]

@jwildeboer
> I consider it to be a proprietary thing.

Of course it is, in any case my knowledge is simply not deep enough on those specifics to point them out. And it doesn't have to be.

Looking at the actors, the "experience" we all "have" with them by reading on the web what those actors did to become what they are today, adding the halloween papers and the FOSS evolution of openAI, choices and decisions are quite simple.

Ultimately the extraordinary part is the capability by mono sapiens to reinvent the wheel nearly every time they wake up instead of realizing that cooperation and learn to take that bitter pill of being only one of the many might be more difficult than creating a brand new project on github.

.. that's why it's so comfy to be a social bonobo like me.

@agowa338

[sesivany@social.vivaldi.net]

@stefan @jwildeboer I think technology is the least of their problem. Making the Atmosphere truly decentralized will require a major shift in power dynamics. I don't think you can build it around one dominant provider unless that provider purposely gives their position up. Is Bluesky going to do it with all the VC funding behind them? I don't think so. Not impossible, but also not very likely IMO. We'll be hearing about a lot of new ATProto services, how the ecosystem is flourishing etc, but then Bluesky will go down and so will most of the network because at the end of the day it will still be an ecosystem around one dominant provider.

[agowa338@chaos.social]

@jwildeboer @jesuisatire

It was shit out quite quickly and the main goal probably was deflection of liability or at best to allow integration with other bigtech entities like e.g. Facebook if we assume it was cooking for a while before it went public in twitter....

[stefan@stefanbohacek.online]

@sesivany Thanks to their last round of funding, the community has years to figure this all out.

From https://ionosphere.tv/talks/QKNkKMX:

> $800,000 a year to run the POPs ["point of presence, and it's basically like a co-location center"]
>
> [PDSes] cost about $600 a month each [totalling at $792,000/year for 110 of them]

I'd just not worry too much about the Atmosphere and focus on making the fediverse safer and more welcoming.

@jwildeboer

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@jwildeboer

Just the other day I was saying what would happen if mastodon.social went down.

Jeez. I hope I didn't jinx it. Or inspire somebody to test my hypothesis.

Looks like my hypothesis was correct, though: mastosoc goes down but the rest of the federation keeps on tooting.

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@kkarhan

Didn't Delta fork a bunch of email server software to form their own stack called “Chatmail”?

That sounds an awful lot like “yet another server” except with all the legacy baggage of email, most notably that it's an entire stack of yet-another-servers instead of just one (as in IRC, XMPP, etc).

@jesuisatire @jwildeboer @delta

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@tech_noir

Probably the same jerks who keep attacking Codeberg and the Internet Archive.

Some people just want to see the Internet burn, I guess.

@jwildeboer

[jesuisatire@social.tchncs.de]

@agowa338 @jwildeboer

For me it looked like the back door interference with free speech in the arab spring made the twitter guru realize that only decentralization could lead to real free speech that ultimately has the goal of "power to the people".

The problem is that "power to the people" means being able to let loose in the first place, and for some (strange) reason there sleeps a Frodo in all of us (apparently).

So, sitting at the same ALL IN table in the restaurant at the end of the silicon valley one way street just makes you hear and feel the same things and vibes again and again, until they become true.
(for them, in their minds, their beings, their Idiocracyscale of their top ten most important people voted by their #TimeZeitGeistStream)

[jesuisatire@social.tchncs.de]

@argv_minus_one
To be sincere, these questions go way into deep of technical observations, a moment where commoners like me just shut off and walk on.

#Deltachat rules and becomes an option as long as normal people (DAU) install the APP, get asked for their email credentials, and yes even if those are gmail or hotmail, and become protected by the brute force of encryption.
full stop

In any case we are facing the same discussions we see (saw) with mastodon adoption or https.

There is only one main constitutional rule wen it comes to deal with the masses:
#KISS!

Looks to me that the @delta crew went down the rabbit hole of specialization talking to each other about the extreme needs of extreme cases, maybe even exposed to some new version of some CIA\KGB handbook ..
@kkarhan @jwildeboer

[hsza@social.tudbut.de]

@jwildeboer “but fediverse is centralized too!!! it uh uhm some servers are on large cloud providers!!!! its just as centralized!!!!!!1!1!!!”

[sheogorath@microblog.shivering-isles.com]

@jwildeboer The Fediverse is a DDoS. A Distributed Defence of Service

[knowprose@mastodon.social]

@jwildeboer I noticed it early, checked the status page for mastodon.social, and left mastodon alone.

Figured the admins had enough headaches and they did not need users constantly refreshing.

Also, posted a thank you to the admins.

All is well.

Because mastodon.

#fediverse #mastodonsocial

[jackwilliambell@rustedneuron.com]

@jwildeboer

And? This is a good time to remind people the decentralized nature of the Fedi and the ease of switching Mastodon accounts to another instance (even a non-Mastodon instance in some cases) means you can avoid DDoS attacks on the bigger instances by switching to a smaller one.

Preferably one where the other users and Mods are more in-tune with your mindset and preferences.

IMHO large instances like dot social are not in keeping with the ethos of the Fedi.

[kkarhan@jorts.horse]

@argv_minus_one @jesuisatire @jwildeboer I mean, @delta doing a minimalist #Mailserver and releasing that to the public is IMHO not bad, as this helps them test things and have a reference implementation.

• OFC that is not per-se "#Tivolization" but merely a convenient minimal setup for #SelfHosting…