I am sorry to say Graphene has fallen to the slop.
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@davidgerard They're literally doing the "Guns don't kill people, we have to have guns to kill other people with guns" argument.
"Get more and bigger guns now, it's just a tool"
@haverholm @davidgerard they may well just be "tools" but they are tools created by stealing the work of our artists, writers and musicians and free software legacy, tools that are run by companies that cant even spell "ethics" let alone coherently define it with a straight face.
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I am sorry to say Graphene has fallen to the slop. thread: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117226938743085364
they are making out that their vibe coding isn't *vibe* coding how dare you, which may be worse https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49591796
@davidgerard
Time to switch to a fairphone with calyx next time I have to change phone -
I am sorry to say Graphene has fallen to the slop. thread: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117226938743085364
they are making out that their vibe coding isn't *vibe* coding how dare you, which may be worse https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49591796
@davidgerard
You posts atrract immense amounts of whiny imbeciles with reading impairments -
@haverholm @davidgerard they may well just be "tools" but they are tools created by stealing the work of our artists, writers and musicians and free software legacy, tools that are run by companies that cant even spell "ethics" let alone coherently define it with a straight face.
@Bredroll @davidgerard Narrator: "They were not, in fact, only tools"
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I am sorry to say Graphene has fallen to the slop. thread: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117226938743085364
they are making out that their vibe coding isn't *vibe* coding how dare you, which may be worse https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49591796
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@davidgerard A cursory glance at their posts suggests they're stressing it isn't vibe *coding* if it's only "auditing" existing code?
Which is a very fine line that still results in /using/ the slop machinery.
I wish the software development ecosystem would fix the underlying architectural problems rather than keep brushing them under the rug. But we're now all so entrenched in arguing to slop or not to slop that few are talking about what it means not to slop.
@zimzat @davidgerard This post makes it sound like they're using it for code generation too; the same "oh but it's just a developer's private test branch" shtick as with the Bun Rust migration:
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117227346006458958
Plus, their AI-generated AGENTS.md explicitly talks of code generation, so yeah. I can imagine them perhaps being a tad more careful than many sloppers, but even then, AI use has this tendency to make the user less careful and less capable over time.
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@piffio I'm not sure there is a list with both criteria, but I've seen a few #NoAI lists floating about.
* https://noai.starlightnet.work/list.html
* https://noailist.org/
* https://codeberg.org/brib/slopfree-software-index...of course I can't find the first one I thought of right now. Edit: found it! Added to top of list.
Great resources, will check them all out!
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@davidgerard A cursory glance at their posts suggests they're stressing it isn't vibe *coding* if it's only "auditing" existing code?
Which is a very fine line that still results in /using/ the slop machinery.
I wish the software development ecosystem would fix the underlying architectural problems rather than keep brushing them under the rug. But we're now all so entrenched in arguing to slop or not to slop that few are talking about what it means not to slop.
@zimzat also it never, ever stays true. It's another "i'm totally not vibe coding, I'm" [list of things anyone else would call abject vibe coding]
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@zimzat @davidgerard This post makes it sound like they're using it for code generation too; the same "oh but it's just a developer's private test branch" shtick as with the Bun Rust migration:
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117227346006458958
Plus, their AI-generated AGENTS.md explicitly talks of code generation, so yeah. I can imagine them perhaps being a tad more careful than many sloppers, but even then, AI use has this tendency to make the user less careful and less capable over time.
@engideer @davidgerard Thanks, that specific message is a lot closer to an explanation of what's going on. It's the libertarian "personal responsibility" CYA.
I agree with all the rest too, it's a slippery slope. I'm not ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but it's going suspiciously sideways fast.
Honestly I've been suspicious of Graphene for a while because its proponents have a tendency to be shills. Top results for "Degoogle" on YouTube are often fear mongering.
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@engideer @davidgerard Thanks, that specific message is a lot closer to an explanation of what's going on. It's the libertarian "personal responsibility" CYA.
I agree with all the rest too, it's a slippery slope. I'm not ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but it's going suspiciously sideways fast.
Honestly I've been suspicious of Graphene for a while because its proponents have a tendency to be shills. Top results for "Degoogle" on YouTube are often fear mongering.
@zimzat Yep def same, wouldn't know of an alternative that checks all my use cases as of now, unfortunately. Same goes for the Linux kernel etc after all. But at least one can adjust their expectations accordingly knowing this
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I am sorry to say Graphene has fallen to the slop. thread: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117226938743085364
they are making out that their vibe coding isn't *vibe* coding how dare you, which may be worse https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49591796
@davidgerard@circumstances.run oh nice they are not even arguing against the social and environmental problems and just talk about tool efficiency.
guess as long as Soylent Green meets the nutritional macros… -
@davidgerard "Many valid issues are reported in between the hallucinations and other nonsense. It takes additional time to confirm which issues are real and address it."
Well, how does it help then?
How does it help?
In an OS that people use because they fear for their lives.
How does it help?
I am beyond angry.
@shimst3r We have AI tools at work doing these kinda "review tasks" automagically, and report potential issues.
My experience with them is that they do work, they highlight things that is wrong and should fix, things that can be a potential security issue, etc. But so far, I have yet to see it highlight something that a non-AI static analysis tool would find with a fraction of the resources.
It can bug about things that isn't an issue, this is something that the "old" tool does as well. So, all in all, higher resource use for about the same output.
What can LLM tools do that the old tools could not? Of course, they can suggest a fix.
That part is the dangerous one. Using LLM to detect potential issues should not come at a high risk, though the benefit compared to existing tools now seems low. This might improve over time, I dunno...
Using them to suggest patches has a high risk of patches being applied without enough critical evaluation. Not ok.
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@FediThing @contrasocial @davidgerard yes but have you considered the new models change everything?
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Great resources, will check them all out!
@piffio Happy to share!
@davidgerard -
@FediThing @contrasocial @davidgerard yes but have you considered the new models change everything?
@dysfun @FediThing @contrasocial literally their excuse is, we have to use the chatbot or we'll be left behind
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@davidgerard "Many valid issues are reported in between the hallucinations and other nonsense. It takes additional time to confirm which issues are real and address it."
Well, how does it help then?
How does it help?
In an OS that people use because they fear for their lives.
How does it help?
I am beyond angry.
There are two possibilities with AI: either it’s a shitty coder or a really good one. The latter is way more terrifying, when you consider the small circle that controls it.
Funny how people that should’ve known why that is the case turn out to have been running a theater all along.
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I am sorry to say Graphene has fallen to the slop. thread: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117226938743085364
they are making out that their vibe coding isn't *vibe* coding how dare you, which may be worse https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49591796
@davidgerard really wish I wasn't reliant on having a smartphone, it's all so grim
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@dysfun @FediThing @contrasocial literally their excuse is, we have to use the chatbot or we'll be left behind
@davidgerard @dysfun @FediThing @contrasocial Why should GrapheneOS even care that they're being "left behind"? "Left behind" by whom? Is the point of the project merely to one-up similar projects on features at any cost, including at the expense of quality and security? That's not a great proposition for its users, who should perhaps instead start looking at the competition to see what GrapheneOS is so desperate to catch up with.
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I am sorry to say Graphene has fallen to the slop. thread: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117226938743085364
they are making out that their vibe coding isn't *vibe* coding how dare you, which may be worse https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49591796
@davidgerard If ycombinator is the source on grapheneos issues, then it's not true. Some of you sound like religious nutjobs when talking about ai with words like 'tainted', a horseshoe version of twitter users who are psychotically pro ai.
Edit: you blocked me, but this was my first fedi account, so yes it's masto.social. Is that the best you've got, mister terminally online who replies in 30 seconds?
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@davidgerard @dysfun @FediThing @contrasocial Why should GrapheneOS even care that they're being "left behind"? "Left behind" by whom? Is the point of the project merely to one-up similar projects on features at any cost, including at the expense of quality and security? That's not a great proposition for its users, who should perhaps instead start looking at the competition to see what GrapheneOS is so desperate to catch up with.
@pndc @davidgerard @dysfun @FediThing @contrasocial They want some of that sweet VC money (that has already been thrown away elsewhere)?
