I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.

[heliograph@mastodon.au]

@tante it had real meaning to it you know, nothing imperialistic but a distinct position already described

[skyglobe@hostux.social]

@jwildeboer @tante I was thinking about "digital indipendence" but then I thought about the right wing militias and the whole prepper movement.

[nilz@norden.social]

@tante @jwildeboer

Fascists will adopt whatever terms we use.

So, maybe we should always add, to every term, the word: "antifascist"

We want antifascist digital souvereignity.

[danielscardoso@scholar.social]

I usually see it used as "data sovereignty", in the sense of material control over data. Thanks for the new insight!

[hamishcampbell@mastodon.social]

@tante its mess we do need to practically compost https://hamishcampbell.com/digital-sovereignty-is-more-mess-we-need-to-compost/

[davidgerard@circumstances.run]

@tante yeah, I can't see it without thinking of the crypto guy usage of the term

[algernon@come-from.mad-scientist.club]

@tante FWIW, Hungary's Fidesz (also a far-right fascist party) is also a big champion of (national) sovereignty. So are many other right-wing parties of the Patriots of Europe group of the EU Parliament.

Heck, AfD - along with a bunch of other parties even further to the right - are part of the Europe of Sovereign Nations Group.

That word is very, very right-wing coded indeed.

[hadon@mastodon.social]

@tante

It's not a right-wing term, it is a legal term.

[hadon@mastodon.social]

@jwildeboer @tante

Well, for what I understand, sovereignty and autonomy are not equivalent.
Sovereignty is a more legal sort of term and stronger than autonomy. Autonomy is part of sovereignty but the opposite is not true. I mean, in order to attain sovereignty you need autonomy, it defines it.

https://www-sciencedirect-com.translate.goog/topics/social-sciences/sovereignty?_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=fr&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=rq

[tante@tldr.nettime.org]

@hadon it's both

[ebel@moytura.org]

@tante lots of brexit campaining in the UK was about “sovereignty”

[lyrial@transfem.social]

@tante@tldr.nettime.org I think it can be salvaged, simply by copy-left projects ignoring fascists. The sad, part, though is that there are way too many Nazi OSS projects out there

[fabio@zirk.us]

@tante I think it's more than just the term. Replacing American corporations with corporations of a different nationality is not a progressive project. That's what the liberal elites mean when they say "digital sovereignty" and it's fully compatible with fascist concepts of sovereignty.

[beandreams@friendhole.social]

@tante It's a real bummer, because another big use of the term is in Indigenous data sovereignty, where "sovereignty" has a long-running anti-colonial meaning and denotes some very good technology governance principles

[siroj42@troet.cafe]

@tante I've been thinking the same. Digital sovereignty as a term is also very amenable to becoming digital campism, where technologies are preferred just because they are from the EU. Also this: https://troet.cafe/@Siroj42/116080748677182334
Whether it's the sovereignty of a king or "the people", I'd prefer a world without it!

[bsdphk@fosstodon.org]

@tante

I insist on calling it "Digital self-determination" for that and other reasons.

[mxalba@blahaj.zone]

@tante@tldr.nettime.org

Would digital independence be better?

[computersandblues@post.lurk.org]

@tante this isn't just about words and terms though, is it? if there's a perceived threat and the nation state is the legitimate sovereign, the response most likely becomes nationalist. if the logic of global trade gets shaken and the organizational units are nation states, the response very easily becomes nationalist.

[dar@mastoart.social]

@tante

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a minute.

1) words can be used by anyone, and a word such as sovereignty isn't right wing/fascist at all. It's just a word, with a meaning, used by people of all stripes.

2) Look at the Q bit of LGBTQ..... Words CAN be reclaimed, even when they are 100% pejorative. Trust me on this, I'm one of the ones who reclaimed it.

3) It's not unusual for fascists to use the word 'and' too. Should we all drop that as well?

[sanityinc@hachyderm.io]

@bsdphk @tante "Digital self-sufficiency" would work nicely too