everyone should realize that e-scooters are a physically risky form of transport, especially when driven above about 20km/h.
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@sammallammas @wsslmn @geonz @adub Good to know! Can you ride on normal asphalt and concrete with them, or do they damage them?
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* Why e-scooters are less stable*
Most e-scooters move in the opposite direction on several of those factors.
1. Tiny wheels
This is probably the biggest issue.
• Typical bicycle wheel:
~66-74 cm diameter (26-29 inches)
• Typical e-scooter wheel:
~20-30 cm diameter (8-12 inches) if that
A bump that's trivial for a bicycle can represent a significant fraction of a scooter wheel's radius.
Consequences:
• Easier to be deflected by cracks and potholes.
• More sensitive to rough pavement.
• Higher likelihood of "catching" on obstacles.
• Faster steering reactions.
This alone accounts for much of the subjective feeling that scooters are twitchy.2. Short wheelbase
An e-scooter's wheelbase is often around half that of a bicycle.
The result:
• Quicker pitch motions.
• Greater sensitivity to weight shifts.
• More rapid response to steering inputs.
In control-theory language, scooters tend to have faster unstable modes and less passive damping.3. Higher steering sensitivity
The handlebars are directly above the front wheel.
On a bicycle:
• Hands are farther from the steering axis.
• Steering motions are somewhat filtered by body posture.
On a scooter:
• Small hand movements can create substantial steering angles.
This is one reason inexperienced riders often exhibit slight "wobbling" on scooters.4. Standing posture
Standing has advantages, but it changes the dynamics.
The rider's center of mass is:
• Higher above the deck than a cyclist's center of mass is above the bike frame.
• Less constrained by a saddle.
This means:
• Greater potential leverage on the vehicle.
• More body sway.
• More active balancing required.
The rider becomes part of the control system in a stronger way.@adub
the tyranny of tiny wheels -
bicycles have always struck physicists (e.g. me!) as almost miraculous. they are simultaneously:
• dynamically elegant,
• mechanically simple,
• energetically near-optimal, and
• extraordinarily cheap, as a conveyance.YES I DO LOVE BICYCLES. so should everyone, tbh.
with the added proviso that not everyone can ride a bicycle and that's OK. humanity will always need other transportation options. we just aren't anywhere close to bikemaxxing yet and we should be.
@adub Far more people can ride bicycles than drive cars, so no need to excuse your love!
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@dplattsf oh no, that's awful!
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@dplattsf we have tram tracks on a number of major arterials in Toronto too. i once got my bike wheel caught in a track on a rainy day and - by the grace of god or whoever - there wasn't a car to run me over from behind when i splatted. i got up very quickly but the outcome could have been so much worse!!
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@adub I'm frustrated by how much money we put into bikes. We could put that into decent transportation like a train or more buses! Things that don't involve showing up at work exhausted and sweaty and with horrible helmet hair, that don't become dangerous due to ice most of the year
Bikes are a rounding error on pretty much every budget when compared to the money put into car infrastructure.
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everyone should realize that e-scooters are a physically risky form of transport, especially when driven above about 20km/h. if you fall off, you're going to have facial trauma at a minimum. just ask my 50-something brother who got stuck with a big dental bill. ALWAYS wear a FULL FACE HELMET on these things - a bike helmet isn't enough. and NEVER EVER ride with MORE THAN ONE RIDER on board.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-scooters-pediatrician-survey-9.7305210
@adub@beige.party Honestly it makes me wonder where they live that the state of their streets doesn’t clearly preclude using them. Same for typical rollerblades (there are ones with larger-sized wheels intended for rough-terrain skating that are somewhat suitable).
We routinely have potholes larger than the wheels on those things.
(Even some of the smaller foldable bikes have wheels that can get hazardously small.)
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upshot: don't get your child an e-scooter, get them a bicycle instead.
an added bonus if you get a bicycle without a battery: you won't find the room where it's stored engulfed in flames in 90 seconds if it catches fire.
@adub Consideration: LFP batteries are okay. (This generally requires doing business with places making custom e-bikes & batteries, where one can specify the cell-type to use.)
It should however be regulated against to deploy Lithium-ion incendiary devices in environments that expect frequent disturbance, human interaction or to be in highly flammable environments (such as homes).
(Why yes this basically reserves them for industrial environments or ones with active fire control measures, indeed.) -
@adub I'm a fan of (unmotorized) kick scooters too. It's easier to trip on them than on a bike, but as you're already in a standing position you'll often be able to run the momentum off or just scrape the knee when falling, versus falling much farther and in a less advantageous position on a bicycle.
Also here in Germany, kick scooters count as free hand luggage on most buses and trains, whereas bicycles have restrictions during rush hour and require a whole second ticket just for the bike. And e-scooters have been banned completely by many local transit operators because a few shit-quality ones went up in flames and there's apparently no reliable safety certification system to allow specifically safe quality scooters.@LunaDragofelis @adub How are folding bicycles considered? -
@LunaDragofelis @adub How are folding bicycles considered?
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bicycles have always struck physicists (e.g. me!) as almost miraculous. they are simultaneously:
• dynamically elegant,
• mechanically simple,
• energetically near-optimal, and
• extraordinarily cheap, as a conveyance.YES I DO LOVE BICYCLES. so should everyone, tbh.
with the added proviso that not everyone can ride a bicycle and that's OK. humanity will always need other transportation options. we just aren't anywhere close to bikemaxxing yet and we should be.
@adub I love the hashtag!
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bicycles have always struck physicists (e.g. me!) as almost miraculous. they are simultaneously:
• dynamically elegant,
• mechanically simple,
• energetically near-optimal, and
• extraordinarily cheap, as a conveyance.YES I DO LOVE BICYCLES. so should everyone, tbh.
with the added proviso that not everyone can ride a bicycle and that's OK. humanity will always need other transportation options. we just aren't anywhere close to bikemaxxing yet and we should be.
@adub It may be that more people than you think can cycle, if you're not already aware of You Can Bike Too. https://www.miltoncountrypark.org/ycbt
#Cambridge -
bicycles have always struck physicists (e.g. me!) as almost miraculous. they are simultaneously:
• dynamically elegant,
• mechanically simple,
• energetically near-optimal, and
• extraordinarily cheap, as a conveyance.YES I DO LOVE BICYCLES. so should everyone, tbh.
with the added proviso that not everyone can ride a bicycle and that's OK. humanity will always need other transportation options. we just aren't anywhere close to bikemaxxing yet and we should be.
@adub In our city riding a bicycle is like renting your lungs to all the air pollutants
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bicycles have always struck physicists (e.g. me!) as almost miraculous. they are simultaneously:
• dynamically elegant,
• mechanically simple,
• energetically near-optimal, and
• extraordinarily cheap, as a conveyance.YES I DO LOVE BICYCLES. so should everyone, tbh.
with the added proviso that not everyone can ride a bicycle and that's OK. humanity will always need other transportation options. we just aren't anywhere close to bikemaxxing yet and we should be.
@adub we should create save roads for bicycles and there would be many more people and kids who would use them - for most ppl I talked about cycling and everyday use it is not rain or snow that keeps them from using a bike.
It is the danger of other traffic, especially cars & trucks. This is also the most frequent cause of death of cyclists. -
bicycles have always struck physicists (e.g. me!) as almost miraculous. they are simultaneously:
• dynamically elegant,
• mechanically simple,
• energetically near-optimal, and
• extraordinarily cheap, as a conveyance.YES I DO LOVE BICYCLES. so should everyone, tbh.
with the added proviso that not everyone can ride a bicycle and that's OK. humanity will always need other transportation options. we just aren't anywhere close to bikemaxxing yet and we should be.
this is so much fun
when the bicycle was invented, there were probably 10 other things people tried - skateboards, etc, and the bicylce survived cause it is the only form that hits all the benefits you mention
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everyone should realize that e-scooters are a physically risky form of transport, especially when driven above about 20km/h. if you fall off, you're going to have facial trauma at a minimum. just ask my 50-something brother who got stuck with a big dental bill. ALWAYS wear a FULL FACE HELMET on these things - a bike helmet isn't enough. and NEVER EVER ride with MORE THAN ONE RIDER on board.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-scooters-pediatrician-survey-9.7305210
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everyone should realize that e-scooters are a physically risky form of transport, especially when driven above about 20km/h. if you fall off, you're going to have facial trauma at a minimum. just ask my 50-something brother who got stuck with a big dental bill. ALWAYS wear a FULL FACE HELMET on these things - a bike helmet isn't enough. and NEVER EVER ride with MORE THAN ONE RIDER on board.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-scooters-pediatrician-survey-9.7305210
The speed and wheel size makes me really nervous.
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@Wyatt_H_Knott yeah, it would be a mighty steep cognitive challenge for an 8yo to understand that risk correctly. i'll stick my neck out and call it a major parenting fail
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The speed and wheel size makes me really nervous.
@gbargoud your intuition is spot-on
