my dude has rediscovered the commons and I could not be happier for them
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@susankayequinn I remember a fellow bus driver who told me that a former workplace had got really toxic with a new boss - she made a point of following through a pointless and unnecessary disciplinary interview with him, and imposed a 5 day suspension from work. She thought she was punishing him, but he spent them catching up with his sideline selling business, making more money than he lost. When she sarcastically asked him if he missed the money when he got back, her face fell with his reply.
@UkeleleEric ha! brilliant
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@UkeleleEric @susankayequinn Tool libraries are pretty great. Seattle's Phinney Ridge Neighborhood Center has one -- when you need an impact drill to put shelf anchors in a concrete wall, that's what you need, but only for a day.
Oakland and Berkeley in California have tool libraries through their public library systems.
@jmeowmeow yes! I'm a big fan of the library and all its Library of Things! I'm constantly telling folks to check out what their library has to offer (and how library economies prefigure a solarpunk future)
https://brightgreenfutures.substack.com/p/episode-25-library-economies-and
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@jmeowmeow I'm a big fan of Buy Nothing groups (and Gifting with Integrity groups which are the same thing)! Use mine A LOT.
(and yeah UGH to FB but I'll use it for that)
You mentioned crafts... one of my favorite new discoveries is the Creative Reuse store -- people donate all kinds of craft-related goods (which can be frames, candles, all kinds of things) and then the store sells them cheap. And they support local artists!
Not just my city too--they're all over! (not a brand, just an idea)
@susankayequinn I am so happy to be in walking distance of the north side shop of Seattle ReCreative for craft supplies. (Also well situated on two bus routes)
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my dude has rediscovered the commons and I could not be happier for them
@susankayequinn@wandering.shop People used to live like this all the time and this shouldn't be mindblowing. Just go talk to your neighbors.
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my dude has rediscovered the commons and I could not be happier for them
@susankayequinn money just allows you to expand the scope of bartering. It's not necessary for commerce, nor is it always the most efficient means of commerce.
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@eestileib 100%
or "communism" or "socialism"
the scare words for "anything other than the status quo and brutality of capitalism"
@susankayequinn @eestileib id say communism and socialism have heavy associations of a state coming in and taking over these functions, which sucks, always has sucked, and always will suck
not to say there arent people who mean something different when they say those words, something more like mutual aid or anarchy, but you can't just wish 100 years of historical examples away
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@susankayequinn money just allows you to expand the scope of bartering. It's not necessary for commerce, nor is it always the most efficient means of commerce.
@mweiss I'm not anti-money and bartering is very much a small scale thing. I wouldn't even call what they're doing here "bartering" -- we have a poverty of vocabulary for describing this sort of thing because capitalism wants us to monetize everything (for many reasons but mostly control).
I would call this a "gifting economy" -- they're doing things for each other without "payment" but calling it a "barter" so they can discharge the onus we put on gifting having to be reciprocal/monetized.
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my dude has rediscovered the commons and I could not be happier for them
@susankayequinn One loves to see it!
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@mweiss I'm not anti-money and bartering is very much a small scale thing. I wouldn't even call what they're doing here "bartering" -- we have a poverty of vocabulary for describing this sort of thing because capitalism wants us to monetize everything (for many reasons but mostly control).
I would call this a "gifting economy" -- they're doing things for each other without "payment" but calling it a "barter" so they can discharge the onus we put on gifting having to be reciprocal/monetized.
@mweiss he's essentially expanded his scope of "family and friends" -- you'd probably help out a friend with moving furniture and they'd help you with some bonus stuff they picked up at the Costco and you wouldn't call it "bartering" you would just be friends helping each other out. He's using the medium of exchange to help build the *friendships* and that's legit. But what's happening is not an exchange of goods/services but rather a building of community. That's why it expanded.
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@mweiss he's essentially expanded his scope of "family and friends" -- you'd probably help out a friend with moving furniture and they'd help you with some bonus stuff they picked up at the Costco and you wouldn't call it "bartering" you would just be friends helping each other out. He's using the medium of exchange to help build the *friendships* and that's legit. But what's happening is not an exchange of goods/services but rather a building of community. That's why it expanded.
@mweiss the distinction is important because if you actually introduced money into this situation, it would tarnish it. Because it would monetize the friendships that are developing.
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@susankayequinn @eestileib id say communism and socialism have heavy associations of a state coming in and taking over these functions, which sucks, always has sucked, and always will suck
not to say there arent people who mean something different when they say those words, something more like mutual aid or anarchy, but you can't just wish 100 years of historical examples away
"anarchism" has its own history as well
I see the terms all being thrown around equivalently as scare words and that's their main function, divorced actually from any history (the people using them are often relying on mythologizing of history anyway)
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@mweiss I'm not anti-money and bartering is very much a small scale thing. I wouldn't even call what they're doing here "bartering" -- we have a poverty of vocabulary for describing this sort of thing because capitalism wants us to monetize everything (for many reasons but mostly control).
I would call this a "gifting economy" -- they're doing things for each other without "payment" but calling it a "barter" so they can discharge the onus we put on gifting having to be reciprocal/monetized.
@susankayequinn @mweiss maybe i would call it the gift economy or community mutual aid?
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now imagine this happening everywhere... imagine the mindset shift it would create... imagine how radically it would improve people's lives, all while still existing side-by-side with capitalism (for now). Imagine the pressures it would put on a system that's brutal and exploitive when they can actually get their needs met outside of that system.
The two women writing under the joint pen name J. K. Gibson-Graham have built a whole scholarly research network around basically this idea. Basically, many worlds are possible, and better ones already exist out there right now!
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@susankayequinn @mweiss maybe i would call it the gift economy or community mutual aid?
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The two women writing under the joint pen name J. K. Gibson-Graham have built a whole scholarly research network around basically this idea. Basically, many worlds are possible, and better ones already exist out there right now!
@MichaelTBacon oh this looks great! Thank you for sharing.
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now imagine this happening everywhere... imagine the mindset shift it would create... imagine how radically it would improve people's lives, all while still existing side-by-side with capitalism (for now). Imagine the pressures it would put on a system that's brutal and exploitive when they can actually get their needs met outside of that system.
Seems like a good time for me to recommend (again) the Serviceberry (gift economies) and Caliban and the Witch (capitalist enclosure of women's bodies and destruction of communal means of support).
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my dude has rediscovered the commons and I could not be happier for them
@susankayequinn this is wholesome and good and very mutual aid and all those great things, but people en masse being forced into an informal barter economy due to economic pressure has historically been a sign of collapse. -
@susankayequinn this is wholesome and good and very mutual aid and all those great things, but people en masse being forced into an informal barter economy due to economic pressure has historically been a sign of collapse.
@rowb1t I think everyone is very aware that we're in a prolonged collapse. If they weren't and this is the sign post that tells them that, great!
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@mweiss I'm not anti-money and bartering is very much a small scale thing. I wouldn't even call what they're doing here "bartering" -- we have a poverty of vocabulary for describing this sort of thing because capitalism wants us to monetize everything (for many reasons but mostly control).
I would call this a "gifting economy" -- they're doing things for each other without "payment" but calling it a "barter" so they can discharge the onus we put on gifting having to be reciprocal/monetized.
@susankayequinn I'm not anti-money either, and I hope I didn't give the impression I thought you were.
There's also absolutely nothing wrong with "barter". But, as you noted, if there's no explicit quid pro quo it's not really barter so much as a localized form of socialism (also a fine word). Sure, "gifting economy" is a fine term, too.
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my dude has rediscovered the commons and I could not be happier for them
@susankayequinn source (with more discussion in the comments): https://old.reddit.com/r/povertyfinance/comments/1sma3r9/bartering_with_my_neighbors_literally_saved_my/
