Society is starting to look exactly like what happens when we spend decades treating STEM as the only path worth investing in, while sidelining the humanities.
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stems without roots, leaves or flowers don't last long. same for STEM.
@paul_ipv6 beautifully put!
@thepurpleoctopus -
@Colman I'm not from the anglosphere, but we called it just "natural sciences". The local term for STEM then was MINT (Mathematik, Informatik, Naturwissenschaften und Technik).
I usually still use the term Naturwissenschaften (natural sciences) in regular speech, but it doesn't translate that well to English directly.
That said, I do agree with you, and I would use a different term than STEM if I did not mean to highlight everything that came with the term.
I'm interested in the differences between the anglosphere and other cultures on this - I'm from the UK but live in France, and my English/French daughter studied chemistry in the French grande école system - and received a much broader general education than she would have done in the UK - including at least 2 foreign languages throughout her 5 years higher education in chemistry, along with philosophy and the arts.
There is in the UK constant criticism of the too-early over-specialisation in UK schools and universities, and attempts to introduce a French-style 'bac', which even for science specialists includes languages, philosophy, literature, etc...
I'm not saying there's no 'two cultures' problem at all outside the anglosphere - but I tend to think it is particularly acute there.
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Society is starting to look exactly like what happens when we spend decades treating STEM as the only path worth investing in, while sidelining the humanities.
This isn't a criticism of science, technology, engineering, or mathematics. We need them. Desperately. They should be well supported.
But we also need philosophy, history, literature, languages, ethics, the arts, and every discipline that wrestles with what it means to be human. We need people who can understand the human condition, recognise propaganda, interpret context, think critically about power, engage with complexity, and ask not only how the world works, but what kind of world we ought to build.
A society built only to solve technical problems eventually forgets how to solve human ones.
#Humanities #STEM #Education #CriticalThinking #Ethics #Democracy #Society
@thepurpleoctopus soooo the humanities are not the same as the social sciences. Both of which we need.
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Society is starting to look exactly like what happens when we spend decades treating STEM as the only path worth investing in, while sidelining the humanities.
This isn't a criticism of science, technology, engineering, or mathematics. We need them. Desperately. They should be well supported.
But we also need philosophy, history, literature, languages, ethics, the arts, and every discipline that wrestles with what it means to be human. We need people who can understand the human condition, recognise propaganda, interpret context, think critically about power, engage with complexity, and ask not only how the world works, but what kind of world we ought to build.
A society built only to solve technical problems eventually forgets how to solve human ones.
#Humanities #STEM #Education #CriticalThinking #Ethics #Democracy #Society
@thepurpleoctopus the only tricky part here is who is going to teach these humanities.
STEM is neutral however these disciplines can be heavily biased and justify basically anything. E.g. USSR had no shortage of philosophy taught. It was just very specific kind of philosophy.
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@thepurpleoctopus the only tricky part here is who is going to teach these humanities.
STEM is neutral however these disciplines can be heavily biased and justify basically anything. E.g. USSR had no shortage of philosophy taught. It was just very specific kind of philosophy.
@shuro@friends.deko.cloud @thepurpleoctopus@lgbtqia.space there is a number of smart and meanfull people working on philosophy. There a lot were. But usually they are not easy to unterstand and tgey not always told what you like to hear.
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Society is starting to look exactly like what happens when we spend decades treating STEM as the only path worth investing in, while sidelining the humanities.
This isn't a criticism of science, technology, engineering, or mathematics. We need them. Desperately. They should be well supported.
But we also need philosophy, history, literature, languages, ethics, the arts, and every discipline that wrestles with what it means to be human. We need people who can understand the human condition, recognise propaganda, interpret context, think critically about power, engage with complexity, and ask not only how the world works, but what kind of world we ought to build.
A society built only to solve technical problems eventually forgets how to solve human ones.
#Humanities #STEM #Education #CriticalThinking #Ethics #Democracy #Society
Agree completely, although it's probably worth noting that STEM subjects have also been focused on applied science and engineering subjects most likely to offer an economic return.
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Society is starting to look exactly like what happens when we spend decades treating STEM as the only path worth investing in, while sidelining the humanities.
This isn't a criticism of science, technology, engineering, or mathematics. We need them. Desperately. They should be well supported.
But we also need philosophy, history, literature, languages, ethics, the arts, and every discipline that wrestles with what it means to be human. We need people who can understand the human condition, recognise propaganda, interpret context, think critically about power, engage with complexity, and ask not only how the world works, but what kind of world we ought to build.
A society built only to solve technical problems eventually forgets how to solve human ones.
#Humanities #STEM #Education #CriticalThinking #Ethics #Democracy #Society
@thepurpleoctopus again, I am reminded of a moment in Small Gods (1992) by Terry Pratchett in which an engineer and a philosopher argue on which books to save from a vast library about to be destroyed by religious zealouts: Some books teach people how to live better while some books teach people how to *be* people. #discworld
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Society is starting to look exactly like what happens when we spend decades treating STEM as the only path worth investing in, while sidelining the humanities.
This isn't a criticism of science, technology, engineering, or mathematics. We need them. Desperately. They should be well supported.
But we also need philosophy, history, literature, languages, ethics, the arts, and every discipline that wrestles with what it means to be human. We need people who can understand the human condition, recognise propaganda, interpret context, think critically about power, engage with complexity, and ask not only how the world works, but what kind of world we ought to build.
A society built only to solve technical problems eventually forgets how to solve human ones.
#Humanities #STEM #Education #CriticalThinking #Ethics #Democracy #Society
@thepurpleoctopus I work in tech, and I 100% agree that we need to challenge the assumption that humanities are somehow not “useful”. The seems to have increasingly crept into public discourse from the far right. An educated person should be broadly well read, including science, tech, arts and humanities, and we need people specializing in all these domains.
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@thepurpleoctopus again, I am reminded of a moment in Small Gods (1992) by Terry Pratchett in which an engineer and a philosopher argue on which books to save from a vast library about to be destroyed by religious zealouts: Some books teach people how to live better while some books teach people how to *be* people. #discworld
@baltakatei @thepurpleoctopus as usual, the late, great Terry Pratchett has nailed it!
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@baltakatei @thepurpleoctopus as usual, the late, great Terry Pratchett has nailed it!
@baltakatei @thepurpleoctopus His novels should be required reading in schools, particularly this one.
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@thepurpleoctopus again, I am reminded of a moment in Small Gods (1992) by Terry Pratchett in which an engineer and a philosopher argue on which books to save from a vast library about to be destroyed by religious zealouts: Some books teach people how to live better while some books teach people how to *be* people. #discworld
@baltakatei @thepurpleoctopus I just finished the audiobook of this one! Another great parallel conversation between Urn and Didactylos is the one later in the book about the arms race.
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Agree completely, although it's probably worth noting that STEM subjects have also been focused on applied science and engineering subjects most likely to offer an economic return.
@ReggieHere Yes, very true. Thank you!
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@thepurpleoctopus soooo the humanities are not the same as the social sciences. Both of which we need.
@DrSuzanne Very correct, and I feel I should have included this, to be honest. However, when I wrote this, I mostly thought of philosophy and ethics, so I hope my oversight can be forgiven.
I will also say that where I worked academically, even the social sciences were looking down on the arts and humanities. And on the other side, in German speaking academia, social sciences and the humanities are often seen as almost the same.
But yes, you're definitely right.
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@thepurpleoctopus I work in tech, and I 100% agree that we need to challenge the assumption that humanities are somehow not “useful”. The seems to have increasingly crept into public discourse from the far right. An educated person should be broadly well read, including science, tech, arts and humanities, and we need people specializing in all these domains.
@Frantasaur @thepurpleoctopus humanities also means communication, not the technical side, but the wording, the influence, the way we communicate difficult and complex subjects. And it looks like there is great need of it. What we receive is mostly advertising and not information any longer.
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Society is starting to look exactly like what happens when we spend decades treating STEM as the only path worth investing in, while sidelining the humanities.
This isn't a criticism of science, technology, engineering, or mathematics. We need them. Desperately. They should be well supported.
But we also need philosophy, history, literature, languages, ethics, the arts, and every discipline that wrestles with what it means to be human. We need people who can understand the human condition, recognise propaganda, interpret context, think critically about power, engage with complexity, and ask not only how the world works, but what kind of world we ought to build.
A society built only to solve technical problems eventually forgets how to solve human ones.
#Humanities #STEM #Education #CriticalThinking #Ethics #Democracy #Society
@thepurpleoctopus the Bachelor/Master system that replaced the german 'Diplom' was a major step towards less broad education imho. the word 'University' comes from a universal (aka broad) education. the Bachelor/Master system kill a huge amount of this broadness by streamlining universities towards utilitarism/usefulness for the industry.
we clearly lack a period of full blown social innovation in e.g. the fields of community health, financial health, forms of living, isolation issues ...
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@Frantasaur @thepurpleoctopus humanities also means communication, not the technical side, but the wording, the influence, the way we communicate difficult and complex subjects. And it looks like there is great need of it. What we receive is mostly advertising and not information any longer.
@energisch_ @Frantasaur As someone who studied communication science with a passion, yes, I wholeheartedly agree.
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@thepurpleoctopus the Bachelor/Master system that replaced the german 'Diplom' was a major step towards less broad education imho. the word 'University' comes from a universal (aka broad) education. the Bachelor/Master system kill a huge amount of this broadness by streamlining universities towards utilitarism/usefulness for the industry.
we clearly lack a period of full blown social innovation in e.g. the fields of community health, financial health, forms of living, isolation issues ...
@blazr short answer: yes. Exactly.
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I'm interested in the differences between the anglosphere and other cultures on this - I'm from the UK but live in France, and my English/French daughter studied chemistry in the French grande école system - and received a much broader general education than she would have done in the UK - including at least 2 foreign languages throughout her 5 years higher education in chemistry, along with philosophy and the arts.
There is in the UK constant criticism of the too-early over-specialisation in UK schools and universities, and attempts to introduce a French-style 'bac', which even for science specialists includes languages, philosophy, literature, etc...
I'm not saying there's no 'two cultures' problem at all outside the anglosphere - but I tend to think it is particularly acute there.
@GeofCox @thepurpleoctopus @Colman Are you sure it's the British system that's broken, not some schools? My daughter attended a state school, studied German, Japanese and Latin to GCSE and has A Levels in Art, Design & Technology, Maths and Physics.
I'm terrible at languages. I can't learn vocabulary (possibly undiagnosed ADHD), so I'd have hated being forced to continue to fail.
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Society is starting to look exactly like what happens when we spend decades treating STEM as the only path worth investing in, while sidelining the humanities.
This isn't a criticism of science, technology, engineering, or mathematics. We need them. Desperately. They should be well supported.
But we also need philosophy, history, literature, languages, ethics, the arts, and every discipline that wrestles with what it means to be human. We need people who can understand the human condition, recognise propaganda, interpret context, think critically about power, engage with complexity, and ask not only how the world works, but what kind of world we ought to build.
A society built only to solve technical problems eventually forgets how to solve human ones.
#Humanities #STEM #Education #CriticalThinking #Ethics #Democracy #Society
@thepurpleoctopus I studied philosophy in university,and was hired into Sun Microsystems as such. They needed someone with a deep background, to work between one of the founders and the stem-only programmers. And, to be fair, as a logician.
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@Colman I'm not from the anglosphere, but we called it just "natural sciences". The local term for STEM then was MINT (Mathematik, Informatik, Naturwissenschaften und Technik).
I usually still use the term Naturwissenschaften (natural sciences) in regular speech, but it doesn't translate that well to English directly.
That said, I do agree with you, and I would use a different term than STEM if I did not mean to highlight everything that came with the term.
@thepurpleoctopus @Colman With tongue just slightly in cheek, I talk about the sciences as "natural philosophy"
