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  3. As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.”

As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.”

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  • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

    @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

    There's not only guys on the Internet just by the way.

    All too many are underdiagnosed or misdiagnosed.

    "Psychosomatic"

    "Depression from social isolation 'during' Covid" (Covid is not over in fact), might well be social isolation as consequence of no energy after work because of (possibly undiagnosed or misdiagnosed) LC.

    project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
    project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
    project1enigma@chaos.social
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #41

    @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

    And when they after a while can't work (fully) like this, even at the price of giving up the rest of the life, they suddenly fall officially sick, from said "depression from social isolation" or "burnout".

    Just as possible way how you might come to see LongCovid sufferers but possibly not seeing them *as* LongCovid sufferers.

    Unfortunately not so many gps even dare to diagnose LC even though they're IIRC technically allowed to.

    project1enigma@chaos.socialP 1 Reply Last reply
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    • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

      @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

      And when they after a while can't work (fully) like this, even at the price of giving up the rest of the life, they suddenly fall officially sick, from said "depression from social isolation" or "burnout".

      Just as possible way how you might come to see LongCovid sufferers but possibly not seeing them *as* LongCovid sufferers.

      Unfortunately not so many gps even dare to diagnose LC even though they're IIRC technically allowed to.

      project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
      project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
      project1enigma@chaos.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #42

      @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

      And who thinks about LC in the cases that might be just a bit less severe than the very stereotypical ones (but severe enough to cause issues)...

      project1enigma@chaos.socialP 1 Reply Last reply
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      • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

        @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

        And who thinks about LC in the cases that might be just a bit less severe than the very stereotypical ones (but severe enough to cause issues)...

        project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
        project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
        project1enigma@chaos.social
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #43

        @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

        LC is very not rare (link I sent, and others sent info too).

        oftencalledcathy@mastodon.ieO 1 Reply Last reply
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        • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

          @hoppla

          Another factor in absences from work (or leaving the workforce completely)

          https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025775326001417

          project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
          project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
          project1enigma@chaos.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #44

          @hoppla

          And where less social contact really has health impacts (causality this way round instead of "I'm chronically ill and experiencing the typical let down that most chronically ill people experience"), make social contact safer again.

          #CleanAir #MaskUp #CovidIsNotOver

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

            As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

            If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

            In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

            #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

            sui@troet.cafeS This user is from outside of this forum
            sui@troet.cafeS This user is from outside of this forum
            sui@troet.cafe
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #45

            @hoppla People should more often avoid work and go on strike. They make all the profits, but the corporate king takes several million from it, while the employees are still cheated out of their minimum wages.

            So join a union!

            https://jacobin.com/2023/10/uaw-strike-big-three-historic-wins-worker-power-tentative-agreements

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • essexman@mastodon.socialE essexman@mastodon.social

              @hoppla I’d include workplace bullying as a factor

              project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
              project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
              project1enigma@chaos.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #46

              @essexman @hoppla

              True, unmitigated bullying accounted for a few weeks of sick leave accumulated for me. Before they eventually moved *me* (not him) to another team.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • androcat@toot.catA androcat@toot.cat

                @hoppla

                You probably know this, but I am going to say it anyway:

                "people don't want to work" is not worth struggling over.

                It is an obvious piece of fascist propaganda.

                A far-right myth of an undeserving people "mooching off our poor hard-working job-creators".

                What a joke. It's so clumsy and obvious.

                Throw it down and step on it.

                If peopel are getting sick more: It's covid. It's car exhausts. It's hateful middle-aged men with power. All of that is enough to make a person sick.

                einspossum@chaos.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                einspossum@chaos.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                einspossum@chaos.social
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #47

                @androcat @hoppla People shouldnt want to work, people shouldnt be forced to work. Whats called work today is largely bullshit.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                  @zash I can't applaud loud enough for this view. In a world shifted by AI we need a radical new understanding about what we want to call work. As far as I comphrend social sciences is working on it for decades already.

                  project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                  project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                  project1enigma@chaos.social
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #48

                  @hoppla @zash

                  Guess why fascists and radical conservatives want to get rid of social studies and other "soft" sciences.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                    As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                    If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                    In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                    #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                    birk_lab@fediscience.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                    birk_lab@fediscience.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                    birk_lab@fediscience.org
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #49

                    @hoppla Not to mention how happy you will be if everybody who just stayed home for a day when they ate something wrong now comes in to your office for a sick note instead. which of course will be longer than one or two days.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

                      @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

                      LC is very not rare (link I sent, and others sent info too).

                      oftencalledcathy@mastodon.ieO This user is from outside of this forum
                      oftencalledcathy@mastodon.ieO This user is from outside of this forum
                      oftencalledcathy@mastodon.ie
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #50

                      @hoppla @project1enigma @ABScientist @feisty_lemming here in Ireland, I’m seeing that people want any diagnosis except Long Covid, there’s a strong stigma attached to it

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                        As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                        If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                        In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                        #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                        da_gut@dice.campD This user is from outside of this forum
                        da_gut@dice.campD This user is from outside of this forum
                        da_gut@dice.camp
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #51

                        @hoppla it’s the same in the United States.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                          As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                          If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                          In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                          #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                          treehugger@sciences.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                          treehugger@sciences.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                          treehugger@sciences.social
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #52

                          @hoppla
                          I stopped working in march because of long COVID. I probably would've stopped earlier but was lucky to have a 9h per week job and needed the money. The difficulty is when quitting work helps you improve, people think you are fine and can work.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • androcat@toot.catA androcat@toot.cat

                            @hoppla

                            You probably know this, but I am going to say it anyway:

                            "people don't want to work" is not worth struggling over.

                            It is an obvious piece of fascist propaganda.

                            A far-right myth of an undeserving people "mooching off our poor hard-working job-creators".

                            What a joke. It's so clumsy and obvious.

                            Throw it down and step on it.

                            If peopel are getting sick more: It's covid. It's car exhausts. It's hateful middle-aged men with power. All of that is enough to make a person sick.

                            old_it_geek@techhub.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                            old_it_geek@techhub.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                            old_it_geek@techhub.social
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #53

                            @androcat @hoppla if everybody worked ie had a job the economy would be at full capacity and the RBA would be increasing interest rates to slow it down.

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                            • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                              As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                              If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                              In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                              #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                              d1ss0nanz@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                              d1ss0nanz@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                              d1ss0nanz@mastodon.social
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #54

                              @hoppla
                              https://mastodon.social/@d1ss0nanz/116894049878529029

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                              0
                              • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                                As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                                If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                                In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                                #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                                postantiquarian@archaeo.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                postantiquarian@archaeo.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                postantiquarian@archaeo.social
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #55

                                @hoppla another thing that Merz and co. don't realise is that if I call my doc from home where I have made myself feel comfortable and the doc asks "shall I write you a note for the rest of the week" I am more likely to say "I'm sure I'll feel fine in a day or so" whereas if I have dragged myself to their office and am feeling really rough I am 100% going to answer "God, please do!" to the same question.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • anke@social.scribblers.clubA anke@social.scribblers.club

                                  @hoppla Either the politicians who say these things have no idea what life is like for less privileged people... Or...
                                  There's something my history teacher said: "They didn't say these things because they believed they were true, but because they had to be true to justify their plans."

                                  ehproque@neopaquita.esE This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  ehproque@neopaquita.es
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #56

                                  @Anke @hoppla I think it's obviously the latter. The Spanish Right started an offensive against "absentism" in perfect sync, without there being any evidence that people miss work for any reason other than being sick.

                                  They just want to end sick pay, it's as simple as that.

                                  holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • ehproque@neopaquita.esE ehproque@neopaquita.es

                                    @Anke @hoppla I think it's obviously the latter. The Spanish Right started an offensive against "absentism" in perfect sync, without there being any evidence that people miss work for any reason other than being sick.

                                    They just want to end sick pay, it's as simple as that.

                                    holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH This user is from outside of this forum
                                    holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH This user is from outside of this forum
                                    holliek72@mastodonapp.uk
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #57

                                    @ehproque @Anke @hoppla Ditto in the UK with "Why are so many people taking sick leave?"

                                    ehproque@neopaquita.esE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH holliek72@mastodonapp.uk

                                      @ehproque @Anke @hoppla Ditto in the UK with "Why are so many people taking sick leave?"

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                                      ehproque@neopaquita.es
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #58

                                      @HollieK72 we're actually taking more sick leave since 2020. Did anything happen in 2020 to make us less healthy? It's a mystery @Anke @hoppla

                                      holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • ehproque@neopaquita.esE ehproque@neopaquita.es

                                        @HollieK72 we're actually taking more sick leave since 2020. Did anything happen in 2020 to make us less healthy? It's a mystery @Anke @hoppla

                                        holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH This user is from outside of this forum
                                        holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH This user is from outside of this forum
                                        holliek72@mastodonapp.uk
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #59

                                        @ehproque @Anke @hoppla 2020? No idea!

                                        ehproque@neopaquita.esE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH holliek72@mastodonapp.uk

                                          @ehproque @Anke @hoppla 2020? No idea!

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                                          ehproque@neopaquita.es
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #60

                                          @HollieK72 @Anke @hoppla I for one am older, fatter and balder; I blame Black Lives Matter

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