I think #Signal seems to be a really good app.

[distante@mastodon.social]

@rakoo Anonymity, privacy and security are different things

[distante@mastodon.social]

@rraggl @delta @matrix @threemaapp @briar That's great. How many of your friends have you persuaded to pay for the app or learn about decentralisation?

No one is looking for anonymity. People want privacy at best

[rakoo@blah.rako.space]

@Distante yes, and in the context of the discussion when the US gov declares you as an enemy signal might provide security but not the others

[benjamim@social.lol]

@leanderlindahl do you have any idea for a good alternative? I've been testing two:

Briar: https://briarproject.org/
and
Delta Chat: https://delta.chat/en/

[leanderlindahl@mastodon.social]

@benjamim I hesitate to name alternatives because I'm not a security expert. But for messaging with friends and family there are a number of alternatives.
https://european-alternatives.eu/category/instant-messaging-apps

There seems be a consensus that #delta @delta offers the same level of security as Signal, but I'm sure someone will hit me in the head now with facts to the contrary.

[benjamim@social.lol]

@leanderlindahl @delta "someone will hit me in the head" ok ok thank you anyway

[ben@kwiecien.us]

@leanderlindahl @benjamim @delta Signal has fancier encryption and I believe less metadata, but do you really want to trust them? Unless I'm missing something, Signal tries to store your keys on their server with a six digit PIN. I don't see why they can't just brute force that

[benjamim@social.lol]

@ben @leanderlindahl I'm trying to avoid American products as much as possible. Signal uses infrastructure from AWS, GCE and Azure.
This way I'm looking for a easy alternative (non-tech) to Signal. And @delta looks really good.

[ben@kwiecien.us]

@benjamim @leanderlindahl @delta Delta Chat is true freedom

[rraggl@mastodon.nl]

@Distante @delta @matrix @threemaapp @briar

Working on it... One by one, bit by bit. It's not a one time action, it's a process.

And I am more than willing to pay the fee if they prefer Threema.

[timon@freiburg.social]

@leanderlindahl well yes, but as they say: the perfect is the enemy of the good. If we were to exclude anyone who relies on AWS (even European alternatives to US tech giants), we'd have precious little to nothing left.

It's a net positive to migrate from Whatsapp to Signal so that counts as a win in my book. Let's redirect our efforts to other apps/fields where switching is easier/more urgent. For example, I just today found out that there's a Nürnberg-based software firm that makes a drop-in replacement for MS Office. Yeah, https://www.softmaker.de/ is closed source and Libreoffice is not, but Softmaker's suite has basically zero switching cost and LibreOffice works, but it UI is stuck in the 90s.

Or take Wero. I'd be so happy if we could establish it as a PayPal alternative

[leanderlindahl@mastodon.social]

@timon in what way does switching to Signal promote European digital sovereignty? It does not.

I'm fine with you liking the app, promoting the app and pointing out it has amazing encryption and UX. That still doesn't promote European independence in the tech sector. You're free use it as much as you want.

But don't brand it as European digital sovereignty. It means users switch to another US product instead of a European product and European products in that space don't grow the user base.

[timon@freiburg.social]

@leanderlindahl you're right of course, sorry. I came at this from a "anything's better than supporting US tech giants" point of view. My primary concern is not with European digital sovereignty.

If that's what you're after, maybe give Matrix a shot. I doubt it'll be widely adopted as a whatsapp replacement, but it is a very mature E2E chat and call protocol and decentralized network.

Germany is currently adapting it for use in its Bundesmessenger (https://element.io/de/matrix-in-germany/projects/bundesmessenger) for administrative use and the French have already rolled it out to 600k civil servants: https://media.ccc.de/v/matrix-conf-2025-74487-matrix-french-gov-deployment-opening-a-private-federation-securely

[salyavin@famichiki.jp]

@leanderlindahl
In some ways not as good but there is Threema, xmpp, and Matrix.

[utopiarte@tupambae.org]

@leanderlindahl

#SIGNAL?
Decentralization, as well as FOSS, is a mandatory key feature, it's not negotiable.
Together they impose not only a European but a new world, ordered by aGI = actuall General Indepenence.

@werawelt @delta
#DIDit #DIday

[leanderlindahl@mastodon.social]

@timon Thx Timon that's very kind of you.

But I'm not asking for advice. I think I am aware of (almost) all the alternatives. I wanted to point out that Signal is US software built in Mountain View, California.

Switching people to that, won't strengthen European digital independence. It will expend the precious "switching capital" of users who are enthusiastic about digital sovereignty towards US software and prevent European alternatives from getting new users and grow.

#diday

[ilka4you@mastodon.social]

@leanderlindahl @timon agreed, switching to any kind of USamerican product as "alternative" is nonsensical. Threema is a messanger based in CH & a good alternative.

[werawelt@social.tchncs.de]

@utopiarte
Interesting, thanks for shareing

[utopiarte@tupambae.org]

@werawelt

thx

A work in progress, originated somewhere in this conversation and long before.

Actually, instead of procrastinating here, doing some showOff, the#freePlane bee in the task bar screems for attention!

( .. slips off, trying to leave the relentless fediInteraction ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ )

[utopiarte@tupambae.org]

@werawelt

instead of procrastinating here, doing some showOff, the#freePlane bee in the task bar screems for attention!

Einige Stunden später, Arbeitsnachweis:
.. mit der Erkenntnis das diese Map bereits wieder and die Grenzen des verständlichen und\oder übersichtlichen gestossen ist.

#doDo:
Abstand gewinnen, feedback einholen, drüber schlafen und Morgen wieder betrachten.

CC:
@mina