Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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Let's ask the real question:
Firefox users,
do you want any AI directly built into Firefox, or separated out into extensions?
@duke_of_germany I ditched Firefox for a combo of Waterfox and Librewolf long enough ago that I forget what it was that made me do so, it was before they started playing footsie with AI... probably the baked-in telemetry, or something like that... whatever it was, it made me ditch T-bird as well.
AND yes, Mozilla should not be messing with AI _at all_.
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Just give me an easy to find switch that removes _all_ LLM and "AI"-features in Firefox, thank you.
@knud @firefoxwebdevs No, put it in an extension so that it won't be "magically reenabled" like all the other ml options I kept having to disable when I was still using firefox...
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@zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard My interpretation of the poll results is that the vast majority of people feel that the translation engine should be disabled as part of an AI kill switch, but there should be a way to re-enable the translation engine whilst leaving the kill switch otherwise active.
@firefoxwebdevs @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard the poll was misleading and i am sure i am not the only one who voted to re-enable the translation because it wasn't fully clear what that meant. if i could revoke my vote i would.
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@firefoxwebdevs Where's the option for "I do not want this bullshit toy anywhere near my browser"? Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to be pro-slop? Why are all the executives so into this crap? Can't we just let them have their cocaine daydreams without subject the rest of us to it?
@StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs the correct answer to that poll is switch to @Waterfox
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@bjn @StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Wasn't it Mark Zuckerberg of whom it was said, in the early days of Facebook, "if you're not paying for the product you ARE the product"?
@cstross @StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard My first encounter with the idea was reading Chomsky in the 1980s, in relation to media. The idea is likely way older.
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante BOTH (2) and (3).
The Mozilla I want is one that would pre-install uBlock Origin. An effective adblocker furthers Mozilla's purported mission of "put[ting] control of the internet back in the hands of the people using it" way more than any LLM nonsense.
@tommorris @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante
LibreWolf is a popular fork that pre-installs UBO
I've been using it daily for months
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@tommorris @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante
LibreWolf is a popular fork that pre-installs UBO
I've been using it daily for months
@rzeta0 @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante yup, I like LibreWolf a lot, although I'm testing out Zen more at the moment.
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@m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs you have it completely backwards, AI should be opt in not opt out
@redfernmike @m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs But that way they can't validate their CEOs ego by telling them how many people are "using" the Clanker.
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@firefoxwebdevs @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard the poll was misleading and i am sure i am not the only one who voted to re-enable the translation because it wasn't fully clear what that meant. if i could revoke my vote i would.
@angelfeast @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard as in, you don't think there should be an option to re-enable it, or that it should be enabled by default?
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Let's ask the real question:
Firefox users,
do you want any AI directly built into Firefox, or separated out into extensions?
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante It depends...
Stuff like the small model they have for language translations, it's ok to be built in, this is a major accessibility feature.Third party models that are subscription services, or running as self hosted services, but that require user to acquire and configure on the browser for it to work (off by default), can be integrated within the browser, as long as they are extensions to other non-ai browser features.
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@joepie91 I think a lot of people in the replies would consider this sneaky. It's a tricky UX problem. But yes, granular control needs to be part of the solution, along with a kill switch.
@firefoxwebdevs @joepie91 Just like making a poll that has no option for having no in the options in the first place right?... right?...
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@angelfeast @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard as in, you don't think there should be an option to re-enable it, or that it should be enabled by default?
@firefoxwebdevs @angelfeast @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet
failure to address this bit:
> the poll was misleading
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@cstross @bjn @StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard it's older than that. The phrase dates from "free" broadcast TV at least.
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante It depends...
Stuff like the small model they have for language translations, it's ok to be built in, this is a major accessibility feature.Third party models that are subscription services, or running as self hosted services, but that require user to acquire and configure on the browser for it to work (off by default), can be integrated within the browser, as long as they are extensions to other non-ai browser features.
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante
Other AI features that are not extensions to non-ai features, and are not similar to the language translation feature using a local small model, should definitively be a browser extension.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs Translation models are language models.
The way I see it, there are two types of AI things in the Firefox product:
• User-helping features: translation, captioning, … Those don’t even need AI in the name, it's clear what they do, and the underlying tech only sets how good they are at their job.
• Buzzword features: AI sidebar, AI window. Those don’t have a user-facing goal, and are essentially a marketing gimmick. -
@firefoxwebdevs Translation models are language models.
The way I see it, there are two types of AI things in the Firefox product:
• User-helping features: translation, captioning, … Those don’t even need AI in the name, it's clear what they do, and the underlying tech only sets how good they are at their job.
• Buzzword features: AI sidebar, AI window. Those don’t have a user-facing goal, and are essentially a marketing gimmick.@espadrine I personally agree with you, but most respondents to the poll do not. It seems like, if the AI switch did not disable translations, folks would not have trust in the setting.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs "Hey, we pooped in your cake. Do you want us to add inclusive topping : yes, yes but just a bit, no no topping on my poopoo cake, emoji idunnolol"
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@firefoxwebdevs @xela If you didn't think it was great you would do the sensible thing and develop them as addons rather than including them into the executable to pump up the number of people seen using it...
@sotolf may I ask to not further mention me in such posts, as I get notified every time. And I don't think, the tone is appropriate.
There was a survey, we got some interesting details about the implementation, we can draw our conclusions. At least, that's what I did.
No need to personally attack some dev folks in the Fediverse. -
@firefoxwebdevs nobody wants LLMs in our browser. do something useful instead
@hex @firefoxwebdevs While I don't want LLM on my browser, some people do... Also, the translations, which is what they are talking about, is not an LLM (as it's pointed on the original toot).
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs Just keep in mind to keep all AI features off by default no matter what.
