So here’s the thing.
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@enki_2931
I’ve been looking at @infomaniak_network . They have almost everything I need. But they do AI too. I don’t want to move and then have to move again.@clacksee @infomaniak_network Fair concern. From what I've seen, Infomaniak's approach to AI is quite different from Proton's. Euria (their AI assistant) is opt-in — it doesn't scan your emails or data unless you explicitly ask it to help you write something. They've been vocal about being anti-surveillance and pro-privacy from the start, and their whole business model is built on not monetising user data. That said, I can't guarantee they won't change direction in 5 years. Nobody can.
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@enki_2931
I’ve been looking at @infomaniak_network . They have almost everything I need. But they do AI too. I don’t want to move and then have to move again.@clacksee @infomaniak_network But right now they seem to be doing the opposite of what Proton is doing — growing slowly, staying independent, no VC money pushing them to scale at all costs.
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@enki_2931
I’ve been looking at @infomaniak_network . They have almost everything I need. But they do AI too. I don’t want to move and then have to move again.@clacksee @infomaniak_network Something that's been nagging me about Proton: why is a Swiss company so obsessed with US politics? Their CEO publicly praised Trump's antitrust nominee on X — "Great pick" — then Proton published a statement saying "we must always be politically neutral". Privacy isn't left or right. It's technical. It's universal. You don't need to take a side in American politics to implement end-to-end encryption.
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@enki_2931
I’ve been looking at @infomaniak_network . They have almost everything I need. But they do AI too. I don’t want to move and then have to move again.@clacksee @infomaniak_network That post was the crack in the wall for me. Not the AI issue — that came later. But watching a Swiss privacy company look so hard at Washington made me ask: why? What's the angle? Marketing to US users? Positioning for whoever's in power? I don't know. But neutrality isn't something you declare in a press release after making a political post. You practise it. Every day. In every line of code.
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So here’s the thing. My entire life is on Proton: email, calendar, documents, VPN, all my passwords, all my ID, all my important data.
My annual subscription is up at the end of January.
If they don’t oust Andy Yen by then, I’m out. The question is where?
Infomaniak seems to offer most of what Proton does but they also use AI.
What other options are there? I’m seeing people suggesting email alternatives. But I need a whole lot more than that.
@clacksee If you want passwords, calendar, documents, up to 20GB of storage, and more you can use our trade-free Nextcoud at files.trom.tf . We run several such services no strings attached, purely free. We were floating the idea to provide trom.tf email accounts as well but I am afraid people may abuse that service. As for VPN we use RiseUpVPN tromjaro.com/riseupvpn/ for our TROMjaro Linux Distro tromjaro.com/
I hope it helps you!
RE: tromjaro.com/riseupvpn/ -
@mikerspencer
Ooh, yikes. At least I have time to decide. If I were in your shoes, I’d switch to monthly renewal and tell @protonprivacy why your doing it and that you’ll move if they don’t lose the dead weight.@clacksee
Good shout on monthly, I hadn't thought of that as an option.It's not going to be quick as I've a few addresses to migrate...
@protonprivacy -
So here’s the thing. My entire life is on Proton: email, calendar, documents, VPN, all my passwords, all my ID, all my important data.
My annual subscription is up at the end of January.
If they don’t oust Andy Yen by then, I’m out. The question is where?
Infomaniak seems to offer most of what Proton does but they also use AI.
What other options are there? I’m seeing people suggesting email alternatives. But I need a whole lot more than that.
@clacksee I think you can not evade 'AI' code in any widespread service now. It's becoming a competitive advantage. It's just not the right time for companies to boast about it yet.
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PS for @protonprivacy, Are you listening? Your customers are bailing. Lose Andy Yen ASAP.
Currently I use:
Tuta and Murena for email
NextCloud for cloud and calendar
Privamatic and Tor VPN for hardening and VPN
NextCloud for PasswordsAs an FYI Murena actually uses NextCloud, which enable you to have all your documents, passwords, email, photos, calendar in one place and accessible via NextCloud apps and with a free tier available as well.
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@clacksee Their AI assistant (Euria) is opt-in and doesn't touch your data, so it's not the same model as what's happening at Proton. If you want something dead simple and cheap, Posteo is a German provider at €1/month — no personal data required at all.
@enki_2931
That’s the same as where Proton was a year ago, though. Just saying… -
@mikerspencer
Ooh, yikes. At least I have time to decide. If I were in your shoes, I’d switch to monthly renewal and tell @protonprivacy why your doing it and that you’ll move if they don’t lose the dead weight.@clacksee @mikerspencer
That’s a great call - my annual renewal is next month too.
So disappointed that @protonprivacy is putting AI obsession over security and quality engineering practices, not to mention unacceptable treatment of staff. -
@clacksee Get out. Now. Don't wait & see. Remember, OpenAI fired Sam Altman - fat lot of good that did. Just getting rid of Yen won't change the culture he represents & if it wasn't inherent, we wouldn't have to ask them; he'd have been fired long ago.
Changing such a culture is something a business has to prove & that's not going to happen before your next payment.
@jwcph
Spoken like someone with a whole lot of time on his hands. -
@noodle
Yeah, you raise an interesting point. I have two main email addresses. Both are currently Proton on the back end, but one is on my domain. The other is a proton-branded email. I think I might start using a personal domain so that when I have to switch in future, it’s less of a hassle. -
@clacksee
Good shout on monthly, I hadn't thought of that as an option.It's not going to be quick as I've a few addresses to migrate...
@protonprivacy@mikerspencer @protonprivacy
Yeah, same. I have two main email accounts but I’ve also got a gazillion aliases. I thought I was being so clever setting those up. But now they’re going to complicate moving. -
So here’s the thing. My entire life is on Proton: email, calendar, documents, VPN, all my passwords, all my ID, all my important data.
My annual subscription is up at the end of January.
If they don’t oust Andy Yen by then, I’m out. The question is where?
Infomaniak seems to offer most of what Proton does but they also use AI.
What other options are there? I’m seeing people suggesting email alternatives. But I need a whole lot more than that.
@clacksee@wandering.shop some reasonable imo recommendations:
- Mail + Files + Calendar: Fastmail
- Passwords: Bitwarden
- VPN: imo not really needed for 99% of cases but AirVPN -
@clacksee For passwords and 2FA, I've moved entirely to KeePass (KeePassXC on desktop, KeePassDX on mobile). It handles both passwords and TOTP codes, so I dropped Aegis. I run GrapheneOS on my phone, though it works just as well on stock Android. Vaults are synced locally between my PC and tablet — no cloud dependency. If I make changes while out, everything syncs back when I'm home. Fully local, fully in my control.
@enki_2931 @clacksee KeePass is slopped now. ChiPass is the trustworthy fork of KeePassXC.
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So here’s the thing. My entire life is on Proton: email, calendar, documents, VPN, all my passwords, all my ID, all my important data.
My annual subscription is up at the end of January.
If they don’t oust Andy Yen by then, I’m out. The question is where?
Infomaniak seems to offer most of what Proton does but they also use AI.
What other options are there? I’m seeing people suggesting email alternatives. But I need a whole lot more than that.
@clacksee A bundled/integrated system is *always* going to be like this. The whole point is making you feel like your whole life is on there so it's hard to move.
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@clacksee For the email + calendar side, Tuta (formerly Tutanota, German, open-source) is solid: end-to-end encrypted email, calendar, and contacts, all encrypted by default. If you want something broader with a drive too, Infomaniak kSuite is a Swiss alternative — email, calendar, drive, contacts, videoconferencing.
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So here’s the thing. My entire life is on Proton: email, calendar, documents, VPN, all my passwords, all my ID, all my important data.
My annual subscription is up at the end of January.
If they don’t oust Andy Yen by then, I’m out. The question is where?
Infomaniak seems to offer most of what Proton does but they also use AI.
What other options are there? I’m seeing people suggesting email alternatives. But I need a whole lot more than that.
@clacksee mailbox.org does everything on your list except VPN.
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So here’s the thing. My entire life is on Proton: email, calendar, documents, VPN, all my passwords, all my ID, all my important data.
My annual subscription is up at the end of January.
If they don’t oust Andy Yen by then, I’m out. The question is where?
Infomaniak seems to offer most of what Proton does but they also use AI.
What other options are there? I’m seeing people suggesting email alternatives. But I need a whole lot more than that.
@clacksee infomaniak is gone full ai too.
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@enki_2931 @clacksee KeePass is slopped now. ChiPass is the trustworthy fork of KeePassXC.
@dalias Thanks for the heads-up, I wasn’t aware of this. I’m on Debian 13 and I installed KeePassXC from Flathub (2.8.0), not the Debian package (2.7.10). I’ll check what changed between the two and then decide what to do.
