Am I going to read this Anthropic + Vatican document?
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Instead they partnered with Anthropic, like partnering with the Sackler family to discuss the harms of oxy.
@timnitGebru he did quote Gandalf, which is a plus, but I'm with you on the massive skepticism around this conflict of interest.
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Am I going to read this Anthropic + Vatican document?
No I'm not. All I know is that the Vatican is doing Vatican washing, just like green washing. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised as they have a venture capital arm that invests in Silicon Valley companies
@timnitGebru We need Christopher Hitchens, but he died of the Big C ages ago. His takedowns of religion and Catholicism in particular were epic. I was reading his work this AM even before learning of the Vatican idiocy you posted to the nasty networking site to skill up on polemic after witnessing EA using false dichotomy and victim blaming repeatedly over the weekend.
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@lobingera And why would they have this happen? Why would they specifically invite him?They could have chosen exploited data workers or any of Anthropic's victims but instead it was specifically them. Now why would that be acceptable?
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/pope-leo-address-human-dignity-age-ai-rcna345744
@timnitGebru @lobingera Maybe inviting him to read him a critique of AI is way more effective to lobby against AI?
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Now if the Vatican had partnered with the exploited data workers fighting for their rights, the people whose water is polluted fighting data centers, or the many other victims around the world, I would have written whatever they wrote.
If the Vatican told Anthropic to stop stealing data, exploiting labor, killing the environment, deceiving us with anthropomorphic designs and lying about product "capabilities, " then sure I would have read whatever they wrote.
@timnitGebru I think you really should read the whole thing first, I don’t think Anthropic is going to be so happy with it.
(A lot of religious people have ignored the Church Social Doctrine over the years, Anthropic CEO might do just that with the latest encyclical, but this is a serious takedown of inequalities, explicitly calling out gender inequalities (perhaps the first time the word "gender" is used positively in a church teaching.)
It also kind of relegates JP II theology of the body to the dustbin of history)
This text is about far more than just AI, btw.
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@timnitGebru @lobingera Maybe inviting him to read him a critique of AI is way more effective to lobby against AI?
@grodira @timnitGebru @lobingera And if there’s a working relationship is : the Vatican and the Pope wanted to ask a bunch of questions to an AI company to figure out what it is exactly they are up to, definitely not as their single source.
Anthropic tried to get on the Pope good side. I don’t think they really succeeded.
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Am I going to read this Anthropic + Vatican document?
No I'm not. All I know is that the Vatican is doing Vatican washing, just like green washing. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised as they have a venture capital arm that invests in Silicon Valley companies
@timnitGebru Shame, they seemed like such good folks otherwise.
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@timnitGebru I think you really should read the whole thing first, I don’t think Anthropic is going to be so happy with it.
(A lot of religious people have ignored the Church Social Doctrine over the years, Anthropic CEO might do just that with the latest encyclical, but this is a serious takedown of inequalities, explicitly calling out gender inequalities (perhaps the first time the word "gender" is used positively in a church teaching.)
It also kind of relegates JP II theology of the body to the dustbin of history)
This text is about far more than just AI, btw.
@Sobex @timnitGebru You really missed the whole point of what Timnit is saying.
It doesn’t matter what’s in it. The structure of the relationship – partnership – is what matters. They’ve already legitimised the company (for people for whom the Vatican can still legitimise anything, that is).
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@timnitGebru We need Christopher Hitchens, but he died of the Big C ages ago. His takedowns of religion and Catholicism in particular were epic. I was reading his work this AM even before learning of the Vatican idiocy you posted to the nasty networking site to skill up on polemic after witnessing EA using false dichotomy and victim blaming repeatedly over the weekend.
@timnitGebru 29 minutes in. A zinger most appropriate to the situation. The pattern fits. He even mentions Michael Moore, Robert Fisk and the Port Huron Statement of 1962 towards the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY5Ste5xRAA
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@timnitGebru 29 minutes in. A zinger most appropriate to the situation. The pattern fits. He even mentions Michael Moore, Robert Fisk and the Port Huron Statement of 1962 towards the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY5Ste5xRAA
@timnitGebru We need an "argument from poor design" for the ongoing global LLM mis-selling scam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_poor_design
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Am I going to read this Anthropic + Vatican document?
No I'm not. All I know is that the Vatican is doing Vatican washing, just like green washing. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised as they have a venture capital arm that invests in Silicon Valley companies
@timnitGebru
Catholic Church has always ingested what threatened them, good and bad. Hippies and dictators, saints and rapists. -
Am I going to read this Anthropic + Vatican document?
No I'm not. All I know is that the Vatican is doing Vatican washing, just like green washing. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised as they have a venture capital arm that invests in Silicon Valley companies
@timnitGebru Their engagement with Silicon Valley is not a venture capital firm.
Someone with your academic standing should at least read the Encyclica instead of indulging in guilt by association fallacies.
One might dismiss the belief set of the Ecclesia Catholica per se, but this Pontifex Maximus is well educated and intelligent. And dwelled and executed the duties of a member of the Jesuit order in Latin America.
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@timnitGebru Their engagement with Silicon Valley is not a venture capital firm.
Someone with your academic standing should at least read the Encyclica instead of indulging in guilt by association fallacies.
One might dismiss the belief set of the Ecclesia Catholica per se, but this Pontifex Maximus is well educated and intelligent. And dwelled and executed the duties of a member of the Jesuit order in Latin America.
@timnitGebru Certainly an Official of that Institution able to reach beyond their usual audience.
In paragraph 92 ff, he elaborates on the technocratic paradigma and digital power: “Contemporary man has not been trained to use power well.”
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@Sobex @timnitGebru You really missed the whole point of what Timnit is saying.
It doesn’t matter what’s in it. The structure of the relationship – partnership – is what matters. They’ve already legitimised the company (for people for whom the Vatican can still legitimise anything, that is).
@aral @timnitGebru So, do you have some actual sources on that « partnership », and what it entails ?
(I’ve seen in other contexts « partnership » announcements that were pretty much empty words)
(Also same thing in the SV investments).
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@lobingera And why would they have this happen? Why would they specifically invite him?They could have chosen exploited data workers or any of Anthropic's victims but instead it was specifically them. Now why would that be acceptable?
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/pope-leo-address-human-dignity-age-ai-rcna345744
It makes sense to cultivate relationships with the people you want to influence.
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Am I going to read this Anthropic + Vatican document?
No I'm not. All I know is that the Vatican is doing Vatican washing, just like green washing. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised as they have a venture capital arm that invests in Silicon Valley companies
@timnitGebru I wasn't a part of the planning process for this event but am connected to the Vatican and work on AI, would love to talk more about this. I think having Anthropic there was not ideal, and share your feelings on that (as did others in the Vatican), but I think you might agree with a lot of what's in the document.
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@aral @timnitGebru So, do you have some actual sources on that « partnership », and what it entails ?
(I’ve seen in other contexts « partnership » announcements that were pretty much empty words)
(Also same thing in the SV investments).
@Sobex @aral Well this article first shared by @jdp23 details the relationship that was cultivated with Anthropic. And as for Silicon Valley investments, they don't have to be transparent about their financials but here are companies listed in their stock index, that are to be invested in because they are in accordance with "catholic values": Apple, Meta, Tesla, NVIDIA, Alphabet...https://www.businessinsider.com/vatican-bank-catholic-stock-indexes-faith-based-investing-portfolio-morningstar-2026-2
Also "Vatican Ventures": https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/vatican-ventures
https://religionnews.com/2026/05/22/why-anthropic-is-helping-unveil-the-popes-new-encyclical-on-ai/
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@Sobex @aral Well this article first shared by @jdp23 details the relationship that was cultivated with Anthropic. And as for Silicon Valley investments, they don't have to be transparent about their financials but here are companies listed in their stock index, that are to be invested in because they are in accordance with "catholic values": Apple, Meta, Tesla, NVIDIA, Alphabet...https://www.businessinsider.com/vatican-bank-catholic-stock-indexes-faith-based-investing-portfolio-morningstar-2026-2
Also "Vatican Ventures": https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/vatican-ventures
https://religionnews.com/2026/05/22/why-anthropic-is-helping-unveil-the-popes-new-encyclical-on-ai/
@timnitGebru @aral @jdp23 Just a note, there's something fishy going on with "Vatican Venture".
The address listed is in the US, that one might not be official Church thing.
Thanks for the other two sources.
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It makes sense to cultivate relationships with the people you want to influence.
@CassandraVert Sure and work with them to "bake in Catholic ethics into Claude" which is what they've been doing? People can shill for the church all they want but I'm not gonna be doing that.
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F folfdk@helvede.net shared this topic
