The Bosch eBike Flow App wins the CES Worst in Show award for Enshittification!
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@iFixit good thing then that the DMCA is not enforcable outside the United Shitholes of north America..
@thor Almost all other regions got pressured by the US to pass equivalent laws during trade agreement talks. This effects the EEA as well. Also see https://media.ccc.de/v/39c3-a-post-american-enshittification-resistant-internet @iFixit
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The Bosch eBike Flow App wins the CES Worst in Show award for Enshittification!
@iFixit I think you're missing several points, (a) the battery lock is opt-in and only on the paid subscription, (b) if, as in your example, the battery is stolen and taken to the police, an online database might help return the battery to the owner, (c) is there even an online DB? that design doesn't make sense because the bike would require internet access when the battery is attached, something which cannot be guaranteed.
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The Bosch eBike Flow App wins the CES Worst in Show award for Enshittification!
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@publicvoit @iFixit you can use the bikes without ever using the app.
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J jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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@thor Almost all other regions got pressured by the US to pass equivalent laws during trade agreement talks. This effects the EEA as well. Also see https://media.ccc.de/v/39c3-a-post-american-enshittification-resistant-internet @iFixit
@schmittlauch @iFixit as I said - they tried. Even little Iceland didn't bow down.
Icelnadic copyright law:
art. 11; An individual can copy a published copyrighted work (book, music, movie) for own use as long as there is no financial gain. -
@schmittlauch @iFixit as I said - they tried. Even little Iceland didn't bow down.
Icelnadic copyright law:
art. 11; An individual can copy a published copyrighted work (book, music, movie) for own use as long as there is no financial gain.art. 11a; A legal owner of a computer program can copy it for safe-keeping (only!)
A legal owner of a computer program can disassemble the program to examine, investigate or test the program to learn its workings and the ideas and views the individual parts of the programs rest on, given that these actions are in conjunction with the permissable use rightholder has in conjuction of the perusal of the software. -
art. 11a; A legal owner of a computer program can copy it for safe-keeping (only!)
A legal owner of a computer program can disassemble the program to examine, investigate or test the program to learn its workings and the ideas and views the individual parts of the programs rest on, given that these actions are in conjunction with the permissable use rightholder has in conjuction of the perusal of the software.@schmittlauch @iFixit
Remember DVD-Jon? That case made Europeans well aware of the scare tactics the eminate from the US. The Icelandic version of the MPAA tried to copy the US scare tactics, claiming copying was illegal - but they were shot down - because it isn't.And unlike americans, European people are VERY APT at watching their rights and fighting to keep them.
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The Bosch eBike Flow App wins the CES Worst in Show award for Enshittification!
@iFixit adding that if a vehicle has "illegal parts" fitted and is involved in an accident, any insurance would not pay out and the owner and user of the vehicle could technically be taken to court.
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@mihamarkic @iFixit yeah, but most likely they will implement in such way that thieves will know to to bypass it and end user will be left with the burden. IMO unless they make this system open and will allow independent shops to work on we will just end up with more ewaste.
@exus1pl @mihamarkic @iFixit proper implementation is important
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@publicvoit @iFixit you can use the bikes without ever using the app.
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art. 11a; A legal owner of a computer program can copy it for safe-keeping (only!)
A legal owner of a computer program can disassemble the program to examine, investigate or test the program to learn its workings and the ideas and views the individual parts of the programs rest on, given that these actions are in conjunction with the permissable use rightholder has in conjuction of the perusal of the software.@thor @schmittlauch @iFixit in addition, when you flashed your own software on that hardware, it would also be legal.
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@iFixit TBH e-bikes theft is pretty popular and we need a deterrent. Being dependent on Bosch's mercy isn't probably the best, though.
@mihamarkic @iFixit CES 2028 will announce the "using the battery you've bought" subscription where you get to pay $50 a year to use your own battery. Likely with a $100 subscription variant to use the full capacity, or a $10 one-day full capacity microtransaction - or $20 if it's very cold or if it detects that you're far from home & the battery is almost "empty".
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@thor @schmittlauch @iFixit in addition, when you flashed your own software on that hardware, it would also be legal.
Exactly
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@mihamarkic @iFixit CES 2028 will announce the "using the battery you've bought" subscription where you get to pay $50 a year to use your own battery. Likely with a $100 subscription variant to use the full capacity, or a $10 one-day full capacity microtransaction - or $20 if it's very cold or if it detects that you're far from home & the battery is almost "empty".
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@mihamarkic @iFixit yeah, but most likely they will implement in such way that thieves will know to to bypass it and end user will be left with the burden. IMO unless they make this system open and will allow independent shops to work on we will just end up with more ewaste.
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@publicvoit @iFixit you can use the bikes without ever using the app.
@Tho99 @publicvoit @iFixit AFIK Bosch hast long mechanisms in place that prevents you from repairing Akkupacks and the like. The protocol for service apps is totally opaque.
It's enshittified, don't buy.
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@mihamarkic @iFixit I completely understand that preventing your bicycle to be stolen is a good thing. I want that.
But I don't want that if it comes with a side of being tied into somebody's ecosystem, with a half million dollar & 5 year jail penalty for fixing your bike, because based on history we just *know* that corporate will push through on such schemes if they are physically able to do so.
What about instead having a yubikey (or equivalent security key) that functions as your bicycle key? And requiring it to be able to replace any parts? That accomplishes the exact same thing that this tethered system does, without the downsides and risks.
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The Bosch eBike Flow App wins the CES Worst in Show award for Enshittification!
@iFixit how the hell is this shit legal
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@iFixit Additionally, even when we do not suggest that Bosch might abuse their powers (which they are still likely to do at some point), they can just break repairability of your bike out of pure indifference at some point when they shut down the pairing server infrastructure. When *they* say your bike components are EOL, your whole bike becomes EOL when even used parts cease to be usable for repair.
( @pluralistic of course knows this )@schmittlauch
I think this is inevitable.otoh
seems the bafang folks are losing interest in the 'conversion-kit' mid drive market, and are strongly moving into the oem market.
I'd be less than surprised to see a bafang drop-in replacement for bosch-standard (and shimano as well) mid drive.
may require 3rd party adapter mount, as I'm pretty sure bosch/shimano/others are very protective of their mounting patents
bafang has been cool about open source firmware as well.
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@iFixit as an ebike user I do not agree. The option for this is awesome and long overdue. Bike theft is a real problem and if I have 3 computers on the bike that can be electronically locked, why should I not use this option?
My 9 year old Bosch bike already has a computer in the battery, in the motor and in the display unit. It has buttons, let me lock my property digitally!
@volkersfreunde if you could digitally lock it, store the key somewhere safe in your home and then unlock it again for repairs, I'd love to have this as a theft deterrent.
But doing it in this much more complex way shows clearly, it's primarily built to prevent independent repairs, a 3rd party parts market, etc
