computers were invented in the *mumblties* and you had to pay to program themthen in the late 70s, you could finally program them!
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go ask anyone, in any field, if it's a good thing that their work is held behind one company's paywall.
See how that works for them.
I'm just saying, I've been doing this a long time, and I've seen both sides of the "programming is free!" and "programming is expensive :(" coin, so I can assure you, you REALLY want to stay on the "free" side.
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I'm just saying, I've been doing this a long time, and I've seen both sides of the "programming is free!" and "programming is expensive :(" coin, so I can assure you, you REALLY want to stay on the "free" side.
@foone I remember in the late 80's dad put a copy of Borland Turbo C++, v3 I think (so long ago), and I started my C adventures on that. Then in '96 I found DJGPP, and as I didn't understand Borlands 16-bit C modes I could write "big" programs for the first time.
But to make stuff on Windows I needed Visual C++, which I found, just like Borland, had some hilarious limitations and bugs in it's C implementation. Borland had the excuse of it ran on an XT, MS just didn't care... they defined the standard in their eyes.
Eventually Cygwin came out, and fortunately MinGW a bit later, and now I can build things on all the OS's... <furrows brow at Apple>.Being able to build my code on different platforms is the single most powerful debugging tool I have. When one platform throws up walls, all of my code suffers.
Choice is the best debugging tool there is.
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computers were invented in the *mumblties* and you had to pay to program them
then in the late 70s, you could finally program them! for free! you just had to own a microcomputer! yay
but then in the 80s and 90s you had to buy compilers, which were expensive
by with the 2000s, rapidly compilers and interpreters became free again. anyone could program, for free!and then in the 2020s someone invented "programming but you have to pay", again.
DON'T FALL FOR THIS TRAP
@foone literally the biggest reason I adopted Linux in the 90s was the ridiculous number of free compilers that came with the system
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computers were invented in the *mumblties* and you had to pay to program them
then in the late 70s, you could finally program them! for free! you just had to own a microcomputer! yay
but then in the 80s and 90s you had to buy compilers, which were expensive
by with the 2000s, rapidly compilers and interpreters became free again. anyone could program, for free!and then in the 2020s someone invented "programming but you have to pay", again.
DON'T FALL FOR THIS TRAP
@foone Correct. And it's a major temporal dislocation in that idea that this time, and unlike back then, open source exists, and China produce some of the best of it.
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computers were invented in the *mumblties* and you had to pay to program them
then in the late 70s, you could finally program them! for free! you just had to own a microcomputer! yay
but then in the 80s and 90s you had to buy compilers, which were expensive
by with the 2000s, rapidly compilers and interpreters became free again. anyone could program, for free!and then in the 2020s someone invented "programming but you have to pay", again.
DON'T FALL FOR THIS TRAP
@foone Shouldn't it read DON'T FALL FOR THIS SLOP
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@foone Shouldn't it read DON'T FALL FOR THIS SLOP
@dazzr Nah: "slop" is focusing on the quality and quantity of AI content (and for a bonus, it's also based on an antisemitic meme! yay!).
even if AI stuff was rare and of perfect quality, my argument would still be valid.my point is the paywall. You don't want a paywall on your tools, good or bad.
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computers were invented in the *mumblties* and you had to pay to program them
then in the late 70s, you could finally program them! for free! you just had to own a microcomputer! yay
but then in the 80s and 90s you had to buy compilers, which were expensive
by with the 2000s, rapidly compilers and interpreters became free again. anyone could program, for free!and then in the 2020s someone invented "programming but you have to pay", again.
DON'T FALL FOR THIS TRAP
@foone in before "free AI" (this is not going to happen in any way that matters lol) -
like, even if the AI can do programming for you, which... is debatable.
It's not going to do it for free. They're selling you the ability to program. One of the main reasons you should learn to program is so no one can take it from you, or charge a fee for doing it.
@foone can I disagree amd say this time they are *renting* the ability to maybe program. And the prices they are charging are increasing pretty rapidly as they think they have people locked in.
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like, even if the AI can do programming for you, which... is debatable.
It's not going to do it for free. They're selling you the ability to program. One of the main reasons you should learn to program is so no one can take it from you, or charge a fee for doing it.
@foone I have strong "cooking vs delivery" vibes with this one!
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I'm just saying, I've been doing this a long time, and I've seen both sides of the "programming is free!" and "programming is expensive :(" coin, so I can assure you, you REALLY want to stay on the "free" side.
@foone Yeah. I started with friends' computers' BASIC, then got Turbo Pascal 3.0 from dad's work. After a bit I got the TP 6.0 bought for me by my parents and that was brilliant.
Everything else was difficult to get. I remember looking at PC-SIG diskettes for Lisp and Prolog, at least. But they weren't that good implementations anyway.
Later it was DJGPP and then gcc and others. Let's not go back to where programming tools are not free.
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I'm just saying, I've been doing this a long time, and I've seen both sides of the "programming is free!" and "programming is expensive :(" coin, so I can assure you, you REALLY want to stay on the "free" side.
@foone
Programming is only "free" if your time is worthless. -
@foone
Programming is only "free" if your time is worthless.@SvenGeier @foone wait, what? no, programming is an exchange of time for knowledge, and the resulting program is a completion incentive. what value you assign to each side is up to you, but for those of us who care, programming actually has a net negative cost!
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@foone
Programming is only "free" if your time is worthless.@SvenGeier @foone
You can say that about literally anything. -
@foone can I disagree amd say this time they are *renting* the ability to maybe program. And the prices they are charging are increasing pretty rapidly as they think they have people locked in.
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@foone in before "free AI" (this is not going to happen in any way that matters lol)
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go ask anyone, in any field, if it's a good thing that their work is held behind one company's paywall.
See how that works for them.
@foone Here's an answer you might get, in the form of a 74-minute video essay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4mdMMu-3fc
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computers were invented in the *mumblties* and you had to pay to program them
then in the late 70s, you could finally program them! for free! you just had to own a microcomputer! yay
but then in the 80s and 90s you had to buy compilers, which were expensive
by with the 2000s, rapidly compilers and interpreters became free again. anyone could program, for free!and then in the 2020s someone invented "programming but you have to pay", again.
DON'T FALL FOR THIS TRAP
@foone
First I was thinking you were speaking about Apple and in the future Google requiring a paid membership to distribute/run apps to/on mobile devices... -
@foone
Programming is only "free" if your time is worthless.@SvenGeier bro what?
are you... are you comparing learning to program vs using AI with using Linux vs using Windows?
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@foone
Programming is only "free" if your time is worthless.That's like saying reading or drawing or walking among mossy trees is only free if your time is worthless. Time spent doing what you want to do isn't a cost centre my dude.
Is there some argument for letting corporations rent-seek all human activities? That definitely isn't it.
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@foone I remember in the late 80's dad put a copy of Borland Turbo C++, v3 I think (so long ago), and I started my C adventures on that. Then in '96 I found DJGPP, and as I didn't understand Borlands 16-bit C modes I could write "big" programs for the first time.
But to make stuff on Windows I needed Visual C++, which I found, just like Borland, had some hilarious limitations and bugs in it's C implementation. Borland had the excuse of it ran on an XT, MS just didn't care... they defined the standard in their eyes.
Eventually Cygwin came out, and fortunately MinGW a bit later, and now I can build things on all the OS's... <furrows brow at Apple>.Being able to build my code on different platforms is the single most powerful debugging tool I have. When one platform throws up walls, all of my code suffers.
Choice is the best debugging tool there is.
@sophia81 @foone fun fact, you can run turbo C++ through the web dosbox port, if you wanna relive the memories
Here's a toy deployment https://turboc.pages.dev
Just a heads up, firefox has a couple of keys wrongly mapped
Some colleges in my country still make you use TurboC++ ig
