🇪🇺 European Citizen's Initiative against ID age verification online

[illi@sh.itjust.works]

They want the age verification to be anonymous, no? No personal data other than “yes, I’m 18+”. Or did.I miss something?

[frisk@woof.tech]

@helloyanis That's what I thought when I first read it as well. But then politicians *supposedly* believe that age verification laws are proportionate to protect children. They establish law for purpose of protecting children and they believe this is a necessary step towards safety of children.

I think the only side that can actually step in and have different take on question whether age verification laws are proportionate is the EU Court, similarly to how French Constitutional council rejected social media ban for children. But this can take time.

And how "voluntary" ID Wallet could be within framework of this initiative is explained by section on article I've linked "The law may qualify a tool as voluntary, but voluntariness risks being merely formal when the main services accept a single infrastructure, when the alternatives are less accessible, slower or more costly, when not using the Wallet produces practical disadvantages, or when the user is effectively forced to choose between identifying themselves and giving up the service — possibly even in contexts where age assurance is neither necessary nor proportionate.".

[atom@mk.absturztau.be]

@helloyanis@furries.club not to crap on this initiative (i think its good) but i find it kinda ironic that you have to verify your id to sign a petition to ban id verification

[sam@shonk.sam.ax]

@atom@mk.absturztau.be @helloyanis@furries.club no you don’t?

[atom@mk.absturztau.be]

@sam@shonk.sam.ax @helloyanis@furries.club nevermind then

[helloyanis@furries.club]

@atom @sam You do need to fill in your personal info so they can check for duplicates and if they have 1 million unique signatures, that's how the EU system works sadly. At one point I think you could also send them a letter for that, IDK if that's possible still.

But they don't scan your face or ID.

[fothsid@woof.tech]

@helloyanis A bit of a nitpick, but it's for EU _citizens_. You cannot sign it if you live in the EU long-term but otherwise are a third-country national.

[helloyanis@furries.club]

@fothsid Yeah sadly that's how the system works. But at least you can share it to people you know who might be EU citizens! Just like I'm doing with this post!

[frisk@woof.tech]

@illi I do not know who is "they" in your message, but "unlinkability" is a design idea behind Zero Knowledge prrofs. A website communicates with an application, which communicates with government (actual implementation might differ) to ask for cryptographic proof of your trait (such as age).

Government verifies, sends back data to the application which then forwards only signed information about your trait to the website.

The devil is in the details however, as EDRI's Policy Advisor explains (https://youtu.be/euSkCvhzweQ?t=4964). Anonymity is not guaranteed by the European Wallet solution.

This is not to say ZKP's are not a huge improvement in terms of privacy compared to what is being asked from residents of USA or Australia. They are.

I still argue in this discussion however, that even if well designed privacy solution existed, we cannot compromise on it, as the drawbacks of this entire idea are harmful to culture, safety and freedom of all (including children), and this is the real issue with Age Verification laws around the world.

[hneerqe@lemmy.world]

Sadly, I want to sign a “No verification whatsoever, fuck off with your shit, you don’t fool me” not a “p-p-p-please atleast pretend to make it less distopian”

[ohmrun@indieweb.social]

@helloyanis @StopKillingGames @EUCommission @privacy

Looks like if you're a resident in Europe, but not naturalised, you're shit out of luck.

[marjolica@social.linux.pizza]

@ohmrun @helloyanis @StopKillingGames @EUCommission @privacy also worth mentioning that the EU, whose Commission is the intended recipient of this petition, is only a subset of European countries.

[nyovaya@transfem.social]

@imbl@social.treehouse.systems @helloyanis@furries.club @StopKillingGames@mastodon.social @EUCommission@ec.social-network.europa.eu They just want it a method without sending a copy of your ID to the service lol

[nyovaya@transfem.social]

@helloyanis@furries.club @Frisk@woof.tech Sounds like the reformist approach of "eating dirt is better than eating shit"

[star@fed.amazonawaws.com]

@nyovaya @helloyanis @Frisk A sovereign torment nexus

[leelatorres@ieji.de]

@helloyanis
#FreiheitStattAngst

[helloyanis@furries.club]

@nyovaya @EUCommission @StopKillingGames @imbl Yeah exactly, currently age verification involves sending your ID and scanning your face and sending those to company servers.

If we can get this to be gone it's already a step in the right direction in my opinion.

[nyovaya@transfem.social]

@helloyanis@furries.club @EUCommission@ec.social-network.europa.eu @StopKillingGames@mastodon.social @imbl@social.treehouse.systems Theres not a lot of services currently doing that (in the EU) from what Im aware of. Maybe we should stand up against age verification completely.

[helloyanis@furries.club]

@nyovaya @EUCommission @StopKillingGames @imbl True, I'm also against it but between the unregulated minefield that is the case now and an open source solution I would prefer that one.

And if it's open source I think anyone can make a fork to just bypass it too, so that can be cool too.

Just, going from "Social media bans and ID age verification everywhere" to "No age verification anywhere" is probably not gonna pass at the eu commission.

[outfrost@mastodon.social]

@helloyanis
That's literally not what the initiative is about.

The title appears promising, and baits absentminded signatures: "No Digital ID & No Age Verification"

But then the text says: "The legislation should require anonymous or pseudonymous proof-of-age"

So do we ban, or do we require? And how is "pseudonymous" any different from an ID?

(1/?)

cc @karb @StopKillingGames