Two tiny things I've started doing since the heatwaves became social small talk.
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@gerrymcgovern All of that is so true. For now, I'm trying to escalate the familiar 'climate change' to 'climate collapse' for emphasis in conversations where everyone's talking about the heat as if it's a one-off random hot day today. Nobody's fault. Not part of a global problem. Sure what can you do. Sure wasn't it like that in '76. Ah sure let's have an ice-cream. I wonder if I could say 'civilizational collapse' without instant denial. You are correct of course. Everything is interconnected.
@CiaraNi And you're exactly right too. Calling it climate collapse will be enough to get you called a heretic.
But if you really want to head for witch burning territory, then you'd say that the core underlying driver is white male supremacy culture!
They always come for the old, wise women first.
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@CiaraNi
"But it's just weird that we refuse to even mention it."Or it's all carefully choreographed.
@clintruin I didn't really mean 'weird', it was an on-the-fly choice of word. Yes, the silence is not 'weird' in the sense of mysterious. We are very deliberately not mentioning it. Because, I think, of social pressure among the privileged minority who over-consume not to normalise the idea that we can and should change our behaviour.
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@clintruin I didn't really mean 'weird', it was an on-the-fly choice of word. Yes, the silence is not 'weird' in the sense of mysterious. We are very deliberately not mentioning it. Because, I think, of social pressure among the privileged minority who over-consume not to normalise the idea that we can and should change our behaviour.
@CiaraNi
Having gotten a feel for the thread, I kinda figured you were being glib. This said, I always look for opportunities to point out none of this is accidental. -
Two tiny things I've started doing since the heatwaves became social small talk.
I use the phrase 'climate collapse'. Klimakollaps. Not climate change.
When anyone moans about the heat in isolation, as if it's just a rare hot day today, I mention the death toll and wonder aloud: 'What are we going to do about climate collapse?' Just to bring it into the conversation.
I know it's very Old Woman Yells At Climate Collapse. But it's just weird that we refuse to even mention it.
@CiaraNi I am using terms Climate Catastrophe (Katastrofa Klimatyczna) and Global Heating (Globalne Ogrzewanie). I have also noted that Greenhouse Effect is less frequently used by media than it used to.
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@alx I agree with your points. I'm just thinking about a much earlier stage of the conversation. About trying to get it talked about at all. The phrase 'climate change' is familiar to all. 'Climate collapse' escalates a concept people know. I don't think those who want to keep it a taboo subject are thinking about climate contra ecology or whether they can or can't control it. Many in the 10% of fliers and over-consumers just prefer not to contemplate changing their and our collective behaviour.
@CiaraNi sure, the familiarity with the expression "climate" is a valid argument, but I am not sure people are less familiar with the word "environment", which is where the environmentalist movement started.When people around me use "climate", I simply respond by not using the word myself and using "environment", which up to now everybody seemed familiar with. I don't think anybody is keeping it as taboo.
Consumers behaviours is another discourse, mostly tied to production, not just knowledge. -
@CiaraNi And you're exactly right too. Calling it climate collapse will be enough to get you called a heretic.
But if you really want to head for witch burning territory, then you'd say that the core underlying driver is white male supremacy culture!
They always come for the old, wise women first.
@gerrymcgovern Ha
It's so frustrating, though, that we have to think so strategically about what phrase to use just to be able to bring up the subject in polite social company. Even as thousands of people are dying in European heatweaves. I hope the social attitude switches soon - that the heretics are the ones who try to keep the subject unmentionable and taboo, not the ones who want to discuss what on Earth we are going to do. -
@CiaraNi
Having gotten a feel for the thread, I kinda figured you were being glib. This said, I always look for opportunities to point out none of this is accidental.@clintruin You made a good point and make good points. We are in agreement. Pointing out that none of this is accidental is a great strategy.
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Two tiny things I've started doing since the heatwaves became social small talk.
I use the phrase 'climate collapse'. Klimakollaps. Not climate change.
When anyone moans about the heat in isolation, as if it's just a rare hot day today, I mention the death toll and wonder aloud: 'What are we going to do about climate collapse?' Just to bring it into the conversation.
I know it's very Old Woman Yells At Climate Collapse. But it's just weird that we refuse to even mention it.
@CiaraNi @FreakyFwoof Somebody suggested calling it "catastrophic climate chaos", and I like that. The rising average isn't so much of a problem, the rising variance is.
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@CiaraNi I am using terms Climate Catastrophe (Katastrofa Klimatyczna) and Global Heating (Globalne Ogrzewanie). I have also noted that Greenhouse Effect is less frequently used by media than it used to.
@ThePolishDispatch Now that you mention it, we were not afraid to talk about 'the greenhouse effect' and about what to do about the ozone layer back in the 70s and 80s. As I recall it (going on memory only), it wasn't socially taboo or radical to talk about the global crisis or need to do something. It was an accepted issue discussed at school, at home, socially, in the media. (We didn't discuss things online then, which I suspect is not a coincidence here.)
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@CiaraNi @FreakyFwoof Somebody suggested calling it "catastrophic climate chaos", and I like that. The rising average isn't so much of a problem, the rising variance is.
@miki @FreakyFwoof That's a great phrase. Suitably accurate and alarming.
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Two tiny things I've started doing since the heatwaves became social small talk.
I use the phrase 'climate collapse'. Klimakollaps. Not climate change.
When anyone moans about the heat in isolation, as if it's just a rare hot day today, I mention the death toll and wonder aloud: 'What are we going to do about climate collapse?' Just to bring it into the conversation.
I know it's very Old Woman Yells At Climate Collapse. But it's just weird that we refuse to even mention it.
@CiaraNi If the industry or politics talk about climate change they immediately mention everyone's CO2-footprint, trying to deflect from their responsibilities.
Everyone knows that we're running into a crisis of immense proportion, yet still they're discussing how many gas generators they want approved for their next datacenter which "we desperate need without alternative to train AI to fight climate change".
So yes, climate collapse or climate catastrophy is more fitting.
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Two tiny things I've started doing since the heatwaves became social small talk.
I use the phrase 'climate collapse'. Klimakollaps. Not climate change.
When anyone moans about the heat in isolation, as if it's just a rare hot day today, I mention the death toll and wonder aloud: 'What are we going to do about climate collapse?' Just to bring it into the conversation.
I know it's very Old Woman Yells At Climate Collapse. But it's just weird that we refuse to even mention it.
I was talking the other day to a woman I know to be- as l like to call it - "in the FOXNews information universe", meaning she's getting constant messaging that climate (collapse) change is a hoax. We were talking weather (ours here has been unusually cool) and I mentioned the super el Nino. She "hoped it wouldn't happen". I told her oh so casually that it's here, ocean temps are several standard deviations above normal and the hottest in 50 million years. Then I changed the subject.
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@CiaraNi @FreakyFwoof Somebody suggested calling it "catastrophic climate chaos", and I like that. The rising average isn't so much of a problem, the rising variance is.
@miki @CiaraNi @FreakyFwoof like I said somewhere else today: you can adapt to heating but adapting to unpredictability is *hard* (didn't want to be too much of a doomer and say impossible)
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@gerrymcgovern Ha
It's so frustrating, though, that we have to think so strategically about what phrase to use just to be able to bring up the subject in polite social company. Even as thousands of people are dying in European heatweaves. I hope the social attitude switches soon - that the heretics are the ones who try to keep the subject unmentionable and taboo, not the ones who want to discuss what on Earth we are going to do.@CiaraNi @gerrymcgovern I’ve been reading a lot of Paul Levy’s work on Wetiko (aka Wendigo), a myth of Algonquian-speaking people about a spirit of insatiable hunger and greed.
He characterizes it as a mind virus that has come to predominate the globe, spread largely by western civilization.
Our way of speaking and thinking, of separateness from nature, the earth, each other, and even our very selves is a sickness. Untended, it leads to our destruction.
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@CiaraNi @gerrymcgovern I’ve been reading a lot of Paul Levy’s work on Wetiko (aka Wendigo), a myth of Algonquian-speaking people about a spirit of insatiable hunger and greed.
He characterizes it as a mind virus that has come to predominate the globe, spread largely by western civilization.
Our way of speaking and thinking, of separateness from nature, the earth, each other, and even our very selves is a sickness. Untended, it leads to our destruction.
@zenmorph
Sounds about right, sadly. I can't see anything but civilizational collapse up ahead. And then the question become: what comes after it? How do we pick up the pieces because civilizational collapse doesn't have to mean life collapse--although it could be. -
@CiaraNi If the industry or politics talk about climate change they immediately mention everyone's CO2-footprint, trying to deflect from their responsibilities.
Everyone knows that we're running into a crisis of immense proportion, yet still they're discussing how many gas generators they want approved for their next datacenter which "we desperate need without alternative to train AI to fight climate change".
So yes, climate collapse or climate catastrophy is more fitting.
@Brokar It's a mess. The deflection is strong on all sides. Politicians and industry deflect by pointing at individual carbon footprints. Individuals deflect by pointing at industry and at individual billionaire's private jets, as long as they do nothing, we do nothing. And yes, the GAI energy waste on top of all this is downright distressing.
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@miki @CiaraNi @FreakyFwoof like I said somewhere else today: you can adapt to heating but adapting to unpredictability is *hard* (didn't want to be too much of a doomer and say impossible)
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I was talking the other day to a woman I know to be- as l like to call it - "in the FOXNews information universe", meaning she's getting constant messaging that climate (collapse) change is a hoax. We were talking weather (ours here has been unusually cool) and I mentioned the super el Nino. She "hoped it wouldn't happen". I told her oh so casually that it's here, ocean temps are several standard deviations above normal and the hottest in 50 million years. Then I changed the subject.
@jawarajabbi It is so frustrating. Good for you trying to make the point. Even if she didn't want to hear, maybe somebody else will hear and listen.
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@gerrymcgovern @zenmorph Great observations and points.
One of the things that is giving me some hope these days is a podcast, of all things. An audio drama. Lost Terminal. A hopepunk, solarpunk series based in the post-collapse world, after climate collapse and 'the resource wars'. It's based in technological and scientific and natural science reality, showing ways to live in a restructured human society. So much hope and civilization. Great drama story too.
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@Brokar It's a mess. The deflection is strong on all sides. Politicians and industry deflect by pointing at individual carbon footprints. Individuals deflect by pointing at industry and at individual billionaire's private jets, as long as they do nothing, we do nothing. And yes, the GAI energy waste on top of all this is downright distressing.
@CiaraNi That's exactly what Angela Merkel did in her 16 years as chancellor.
"We have to find a common solution" was her motto.
Means, if you don't come up with something, we don't have to do anything.That's why also in Germany we fight the unwinnable battles.
The lobby for keeping the status quo is stronger and better financed than the lobby for change.
They also like to talk about "future generations" etc. but actually they don't care at all. If they did, they'd behave differently.
