This is a modern motherfucking website.

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @lproven @chaekyung If I had the insider information to actually answer that, I'd be making more money than I am now, but I assume it's some combination of legacy PHP spaghetti code, being spooked after getting hacked over filetype shenanigans earlier in the year, and Hiro being a lazy piece of shit that just wants to hang out with his streaming buddies. A lot of users hold it in contempt but it's hard to say if everyone would change their opinions overnight if it were magically supported tomorrow, yet I suspect not.

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Come to think of it, of all the imageboards I've browsed (-booru style and -chan style,) I don't think any of the popular ones support either webps or avifs. I've only ever seen the usual suspects: jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, and I remember seeing flash files a long long time ago on sankakucomplex and maybe rule34, but who knows if those are still hosted. I was gonna say that webps being better compressed probably wouldn't make a huge dent in 4chan's image hosting given that the website is hosting like a terabyte of content at a time, but 4chan is transient, when a thread falls of the archive catalog it's gone, and so is its content. If boorus aren't hosting webps, where the purpose is long-term image storage and transfer, it's either a lack of willlingness to accept liability, or a total contempt for the format.

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@idiot

I mean, I do enjoy hanging out and chatting. It's understandable.

Hard to imagine how you get hacked by just accepting an image and then repeating it to anyone who wants it, though.

Vulnerable thumbnail generator, maybe? Seems to me like the solution to that is to generate thumbnails on the client side, then upload the thumbnail along with the full-size image. That way, any vulnerability in the thumbnail generator enables hackers only to hack themselves.

@chaekyung @lproven

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@idiot

I mean, if WebP halves image size (which in my case it does, if not better), then that cuts the server's storage requirements in half. Seems like a big deal to me.

What sort of liability would they be accepting? Patent liability? If they're accepting WebM then they've already accepted liability for whatever patents might apply to WebP.

@chaekyung @lproven

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven I can't remember if it was a malformed pdf or a malformed image, but something running on the server was an ancient, exploitable version, and someone uploaded a malformed file in order to get access to the website. I want to say it was an old imagemagick version that was generating thumbnails but I really can't remember without looking. The month-long downtime that followed was probably the devs scrambling to monkeypatch both yotsuba and all of the binaries it reaches out while operating. It's not like the webring imageboards that are all running infinity forks where everything's free software, 4chan's been running the same crusty old php codebase which was probably legacy code when moot stole it from 2chan.

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Yeah, but like I said earlier in the thread, nobody (no end user) WANTS to use webp. It didn't thumbnail properly in Windows Explorer the last time I was dumb enough to save a webp on a Windows install, and Apple holds contempt for everyone outside of their organization so it certainly doesn't work right on macOS or iOS. It probably works fine on Android and half-works on $YOUR_FAVORITE_LIBERATED_TOOLKIT_FILEPICKER. Again, being really good for developers doesn't make it a slam dunk for the people being served the image, other than "look at this with your eyeballs and do nothing else with it ever."

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@idiot

So yeah, a vulnerable server-side thumbnail generator. Welp.

Does 4chan have unofficial client apps? That's the only reason I can think of to not generate thumbnails on the client side…

@chaekyung @lproven

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@idiot

Speak for yourself. I appreciate being able to do alpha and lossy compression at the same time.

I've only needed that a few times, but last time I did, I only had PNG and JPEG and SVG to work with, so I had to embed a JPEG image and a PNG alpha mask into an SVG and use its mask feature to pull off the effect. It was not pleasant. At all. Good riddance.

As for Windows/macOS not supporting it: why are you still using Windows/macOS?

@chaekyung @lproven

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven It's exclusively unofficial client apps, and anyone who isn't using one of the unofficial mobile apps is likely using a comprehensive userscript to supplement the website's functionality. There's a half-assed half-baked unfinished subdomain for a progressive web app that was intended for mobile users whose development got abandoned like ten years ago.

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@idiot

That would be a problem.

I'm guessing it isn't feasible to just tell all the app developers to start also submitting thumbnails?

@chaekyung @lproven

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven The front page right now says there's 231-THOUSAND current users, however they're measuring that. I'm sure a lot of people are using their phones these days, but nevertheless, it's not me that you have to convince to switch. But even if my system supports it, I'm still not going to use it.

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@lproven

I am annoyed by how much overlap there is between JSON-LD/Microdata, Open Graph, and standard HTML <title>/<meta name=description>/<link rel=icon>/etc.

It's my understanding that Open Graph readers will fall back to standard HTML for anything that doesn't have a specific Open Graph tag, but as far as I can tell, JSON-LD/Microdata readers don't.

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven
>That would be a problem.
Ostensibly, yes. Realistically, no. Every phone application is free software, even the iOS one. Moreover, it's hard to imagine them actually making an official application given the App Store's content requirements, not that e.g. Twitter can't get around them while hosting the same kinds of images, 4chan just has that reputation for itself. Chance works well but it's never leaving TestFlight and requires a song and dance to get the website loading.

[pabryan@mathstodon.xyz]

@lproven what are the motherfucking maths on a motherfucking website options?

MathJax works pretty well, though it is JavaScript. I suppose the point here is to avoid unnecessary JavaScriptt though. So is MathJax motherfucking maths?

There's MathML but with a significant amount of maths, the file size is huge compared to the MathJax version.

Pre-generate svg with lazy loading? I've never tried that...

Some other option?

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@idiot

Okay, then I have to ask:

* If using WebP would be convenient for me,
* but inconvenient for you,
* and you refuse to solve the inconvenience for you while simultaneously solving all the other problems that Windows/macOS cause for you,
* while solving no problems for me whatsoever,
* and leaving me to scratch my head over how to avoid losing SEO from the resulting slower page loads,

then why exactly should I go to the trouble of refraining from using WebP?

@chaekyung @lproven

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven
>and you refuse to solve the inconvenience
What's there to solve? It's not like "oh maybe I should emerge -avq media-gfx/super-duper-webp-thumbnailer to get this working in Emanuele's funny torment nexus" and that makes the problem of Google imposing this file format on the internet while bullying out the competition from loading in Blink-adjacent web browsers from going away. "Solving" the "inconvenience" involves dropping nukes or Alphabet getting trust-busted. What do you want from me?

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Like there's a world where I save every webp in its own little gulag folder and ask the slopalisk to pretty please write a script that detected things like alpha and animation and heuristically determine whether the webp that you posted should be converted into a jpeg, gif, png, or audio-less webm, and batch convert all the dogshit coming out of the internet pipe at once. That doesnt "solve" the "inconvenience," it just automates having to unfuck the internet, and it's still 100% my loss and 100% your gain.

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@idiot

You mean to tell me this is literally the only thing about Windows that is causing you trouble?

Not having a screenshot taken every 3 seconds and uploaded to Microsoft for AI training? Not the ads? Not Copilot in freaking Notepad? None of it?

Okay then. ‍️

For the record, I did not suggest you install Gentoo or NetBSD. There's a whole spectrum between doing literally nothing and computing on ultra-nightmare mode.

@chaekyung @lproven

[idiot@shitposter.world]

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven I didn't say I used Windows, I said there's two-hundred-and-thirty-thousand other people on the website at that snapshot in time and you have to convince ALL OF THEM.
And I do use Gentoo, absolutely.

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@idiot

Also for the record, Alphabet getting trust-busted won't make WebP any less available or useful. People will still use it.

Well, that or they might start using JPEG XL. Don't look now, but Chrome just added support for that too. I think Google finally relented on that because now they have a decoder written in Rust, so they don't have to worry about buffer overflow exploits…which WebP has had.

I'm guessing Windows won't natively support that either, though.

@chaekyung @lproven