The names of the abusers are in the files.
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@Netraven @aburtch IMHO every suggestion you offer needs to start from a crucial problem: power is a positive feedback.
The more power you have, the easier it is to influence the rest of society to give you even more power.By reading anthropology, my impression is that the only societies that managed to avoid this problem in the long term are those whose culture deliberately sees the accumulation of power as a threat.
So we may want to start from there.
@forse @aburtch
Or perhaps even further back, to semantics of self, identity, and agency. It must not be easier for people or institutions to increase ambiguity in order to keep as many exit options admissible as possible, because that is the most dominant failure mode of civilization. Once it becomes cheap to produce coherency, and reduce perceived risk, the argument is already won. Whether we like the outcome or not. The system begins optimizing to reduce the outcomes of failure, but not the failure itself and without introducing ground truth or feedback that would have kept institutions from failing to come in contact reality in the first place and producing this fine mess. -
The names of the abusers are in the files. There are graphic descriptions of what they did with underage girls. Where are the arrests? Where are the prosecutions?
We’re all just supposed to pretend this is ok and allow them all to walk away?
Society is over. Literal pedophiles can have sex with your children, retain their place in society, and not suffer any consequences.
The #Epstein class needs to be permanently abolished. Prosecute them, take their assets, and lock them in jail forever. Every. Single. One.
@aburtch in the rest o the world just knowing Epstein means losing you job at the least. In the USa- nothing at all as the rich control the law
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@forse Agreed. We either have to elect new leaders (which they won't allow either) or take care of it by force. But being an armchair revolutionary isn't very helpful for society.
@aburtch Fair.
I fear force is not entirely avoidable, mostly because our enemy has made the choice for us BUT I think there is a third option, which is "community building" or "mutual aid networks" or "power from below" or however you want to call it.
A wonderful example of it we're seeing right now in Minnesota, with the general strike and neighbors organizing together to make ICE violence much, much more costly.
And they are doing this in a very decentralized way, independently from any particular leader and from elected officials.It's not glamorous, it requires to put your body on the line and it's a war of attrition, but... It gets the goods?
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@JakeKb Same reaction for ICE being literal Nazi's a whole lot of complacency…
@aburtch @JakeKb I'm not really seeing that at all. Everyone I know is shook to their core. It's just that they still have to put food on the table and make sure the kids' brains don't explode, so they try to retain some normalcy and income. But people are organizing, people are trying different things. The revolution will not be digitized--it's on the street. The tech lords and media are part of the fascist regime. The organizing won't be on social media. I recommend getting into zines.
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@aburtch Fair.
I fear force is not entirely avoidable, mostly because our enemy has made the choice for us BUT I think there is a third option, which is "community building" or "mutual aid networks" or "power from below" or however you want to call it.
A wonderful example of it we're seeing right now in Minnesota, with the general strike and neighbors organizing together to make ICE violence much, much more costly.
And they are doing this in a very decentralized way, independently from any particular leader and from elected officials.It's not glamorous, it requires to put your body on the line and it's a war of attrition, but... It gets the goods?
@forse What they’ve been doing in Minneapolis gives me hope.
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The names of the abusers are in the files. There are graphic descriptions of what they did with underage girls. Where are the arrests? Where are the prosecutions?
We’re all just supposed to pretend this is ok and allow them all to walk away?
Society is over. Literal pedophiles can have sex with your children, retain their place in society, and not suffer any consequences.
The #Epstein class needs to be permanently abolished. Prosecute them, take their assets, and lock them in jail forever. Every. Single. One.
@aburtch Without consequences there is no deterrent and without deterrent there will be absolutely no change.
Anyone who considers no change to be acceptable is on the side of the guilty whether they believe it or not.
Any country not instigating its own version of the Nuremberg trials on this is lost. Make your voice heard if you don’t want to live like feudal peasants completely owned by the rich. -
@forse @aburtch
Or perhaps even further back, to semantics of self, identity, and agency. It must not be easier for people or institutions to increase ambiguity in order to keep as many exit options admissible as possible, because that is the most dominant failure mode of civilization. Once it becomes cheap to produce coherency, and reduce perceived risk, the argument is already won. Whether we like the outcome or not. The system begins optimizing to reduce the outcomes of failure, but not the failure itself and without introducing ground truth or feedback that would have kept institutions from failing to come in contact reality in the first place and producing this fine mess. -
@forse @aburtch
Sorry, what I’m saying is that a lot of problems start when people or institutions deliberately stay vague. They do this so they don’t have to fully commit to anything and can always back out later. That kind of ambiguity feels safe in the short term, but over time it’s one of the main ways societies break down.Once it becomes cheap or easy to look coherent and responsible, without actually being grounded in reality, the system stops trying to solve real problems. Instead, it just tries to avoid blame and reduce obvious failures. There’s no solid feedback loop to tell institutions, “this isn’t working,” so they drift further away from reality. That’s how we end up with systems that seem stable on the surface but are failing underneath.
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The names of the abusers are in the files. There are graphic descriptions of what they did with underage girls. Where are the arrests? Where are the prosecutions?
We’re all just supposed to pretend this is ok and allow them all to walk away?
Society is over. Literal pedophiles can have sex with your children, retain their place in society, and not suffer any consequences.
The #Epstein class needs to be permanently abolished. Prosecute them, take their assets, and lock them in jail forever. Every. Single. One.
@aburtch Every. Single. Fucking. One. Don't care WHO they are or what I previously believed about them.
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The names of the abusers are in the files. There are graphic descriptions of what they did with underage girls. Where are the arrests? Where are the prosecutions?
We’re all just supposed to pretend this is ok and allow them all to walk away?
Society is over. Literal pedophiles can have sex with your children, retain their place in society, and not suffer any consequences.
The #Epstein class needs to be permanently abolished. Prosecute them, take their assets, and lock them in jail forever. Every. Single. One.
@aburtch If the evidence is so clear, I'm certain that the victims or the relatives of the victims are preparing law suits as we speak. Just remain calm, and all will be well.
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@forse Agreed. We either have to elect new leaders (which they won't allow either) or take care of it by force. But being an armchair revolutionary isn't very helpful for society.
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@forse @aburtch
Sorry, what I’m saying is that a lot of problems start when people or institutions deliberately stay vague. They do this so they don’t have to fully commit to anything and can always back out later. That kind of ambiguity feels safe in the short term, but over time it’s one of the main ways societies break down.Once it becomes cheap or easy to look coherent and responsible, without actually being grounded in reality, the system stops trying to solve real problems. Instead, it just tries to avoid blame and reduce obvious failures. There’s no solid feedback loop to tell institutions, “this isn’t working,” so they drift further away from reality. That’s how we end up with systems that seem stable on the surface but are failing underneath.
@Netraven @aburtch Ok, thanks for the clarification.
The argument seems fair, but still assumes that institutions are there to improve society.The problem is that institutions, as they are now, are a magnet for people who are thirsty for power.
All else being equal, in a game of "gaining power" someone who only wants power will **always** have an advantage over someone who has some other principle.
That's how we find ourselves in a society where greedy sociopaths are over-represented at the top.
The incoherence and ambiguity you mention are consequences of people caring about power instead than caring about doing a good job.
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@Netraven @aburtch Ok, thanks for the clarification.
The argument seems fair, but still assumes that institutions are there to improve society.The problem is that institutions, as they are now, are a magnet for people who are thirsty for power.
All else being equal, in a game of "gaining power" someone who only wants power will **always** have an advantage over someone who has some other principle.
That's how we find ourselves in a society where greedy sociopaths are over-represented at the top.
The incoherence and ambiguity you mention are consequences of people caring about power instead than caring about doing a good job.
@forse @Netraven @aburtch that's what they said, in different words. One's identity being tied to their power is what causes them to chase power. & The ability to maintain a reputation separate from reality creates a gap that must be filled by power to maintain/grow. Regardless if it's at the institutional or individual level, the point is to separate action from consequence for as long as possible, externalizing all costs down hierarchy.
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The names of the abusers are in the files. There are graphic descriptions of what they did with underage girls. Where are the arrests? Where are the prosecutions?
We’re all just supposed to pretend this is ok and allow them all to walk away?
Society is over. Literal pedophiles can have sex with your children, retain their place in society, and not suffer any consequences.
The #Epstein class needs to be permanently abolished. Prosecute them, take their assets, and lock them in jail forever. Every. Single. One.
@aburtch society isn't over; it's been revealed. Has been this way from the start. Everything that happened on Epstein Island was happening in plantations. It being "okay" then but not now is racism.
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The names of the abusers are in the files. There are graphic descriptions of what they did with underage girls. Where are the arrests? Where are the prosecutions?
We’re all just supposed to pretend this is ok and allow them all to walk away?
Society is over. Literal pedophiles can have sex with your children, retain their place in society, and not suffer any consequences.
The #Epstein class needs to be permanently abolished. Prosecute them, take their assets, and lock them in jail forever. Every. Single. One.
@aburtch Police departments don't have qualms about taking someone's car without a conviction.
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The names of the abusers are in the files. There are graphic descriptions of what they did with underage girls. Where are the arrests? Where are the prosecutions?
We’re all just supposed to pretend this is ok and allow them all to walk away?
Society is over. Literal pedophiles can have sex with your children, retain their place in society, and not suffer any consequences.
The #Epstein class needs to be permanently abolished. Prosecute them, take their assets, and lock them in jail forever. Every. Single. One.
@aburtch aburtch…….this isn’t anything new. This particular case is right in your face, but abusers have been given access to children for millennia by both society at large and our specific legal system.
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The names of the abusers are in the files. There are graphic descriptions of what they did with underage girls. Where are the arrests? Where are the prosecutions?
We’re all just supposed to pretend this is ok and allow them all to walk away?
Society is over. Literal pedophiles can have sex with your children, retain their place in society, and not suffer any consequences.
The #Epstein class needs to be permanently abolished. Prosecute them, take their assets, and lock them in jail forever. Every. Single. One.
Society isn't over. Pretending that fascist scandals can result in consequences without removing the people and conditions of fascism is over.
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@forse @Netraven @aburtch that's what they said, in different words. One's identity being tied to their power is what causes them to chase power. & The ability to maintain a reputation separate from reality creates a gap that must be filled by power to maintain/grow. Regardless if it's at the institutional or individual level, the point is to separate action from consequence for as long as possible, externalizing all costs down hierarchy.
-
The names of the abusers are in the files. There are graphic descriptions of what they did with underage girls. Where are the arrests? Where are the prosecutions?
We’re all just supposed to pretend this is ok and allow them all to walk away?
Society is over. Literal pedophiles can have sex with your children, retain their place in society, and not suffer any consequences.
The #Epstein class needs to be permanently abolished. Prosecute them, take their assets, and lock them in jail forever. Every. Single. One.
@aburtch this is what guillotines are made for
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@SharonCrockett There should be no place for pedophiles in our society. Doesn't matter who or what background they come from.
Does six feet under count as a place in society? /j
