John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
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@pelicangut Excellent!
Talking of ill wind... https://infosec.exchange/@davep/116697786709919671
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@renardboy The cor anglais is woodwind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cor_anglais
No, me neither ĀÆ\_ (ć)_/ĀÆ
*Looking at all those people insisting on calling it an English Horn*
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@pelicangut @davep
Drattit, earworm!
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@davep Cor blimey.
@theplaguedoc Underrated toot.
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@davep Wait, I have questions about the oboe thing.
Unless I'm wrong, the oboe is a woodwind, and works like a clarinet or saxophone. The horn is a brass that works more like a tuba or trumpet. H ow does the horn descend from the oboe?
That aside, thank you for the informative post, that was a good read
@renardboy @davep I was confused by this too, because a French horn is a horn and does look like a baby tuba, and has no reed. My error was I thought the "cor" (no anglais), a word I heard just this morning in a discussion, meant a French horn.
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@renardboy The cor anglais is woodwind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cor_anglais
No, me neither ĀÆ\_ (ć)_/ĀÆ
@davep Oh dang, that explains it hahaha. I was thinking of this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_horn
When I was in school and had music classes (in french, I'm in QuƩbec), the name we used for this instrument was "cor" (no adjectives), so I'd always figured this was what the anglophones referred to as a french horn.
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
@davep isnāt it a horn played by angels like in the old paintings? Nothing to do with nationality
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@davep isnāt it a horn played by angels like in the old paintings? Nothing to do with nationality
@sinabhfuil Originally, yes!
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
@davep I love this š„°
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
Superb. Thank you for that!
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
@davep Also see: Swiss Roll :-).
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
TIL English speakers outside North America don't actually call it the English Horn.....??
(especially weird since I even spent a year in England at one point, though not in an orchestra... [or I heard somebody say it and just thought they were being pretentious-French, the way someone will pronounce the name of the department store "Tarzhay" rather than "Target" or use "zed" for the last letter of the alphabet {*}])
{*} yeah okay, I actually had that one explained to me my first day there
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
@davep The US Congress calls it the Freedom Horn.
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
@davep my high school band director would call all instruments horns for some reason
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@pelicangut "Ill Wind"āFlanders's words sung to a slightly cut version, with cadenza, of the rondo finale of Mozart's Horn Concerto No. 4 in E flat major, K. 495. It has to be sung since Flanders's French horn was apparently stolen."
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
@davep
It is French, modeled after the French style hunting horns that work over the shoulder instead of the smaller English that were written on the belt. America is the only country to call it French, the rest of the world just calls it the horn. -
@earwigplanet @davep nope. that's not the reason for the F
@zzoo
@earwigplanet @davep
It's because of how you hold it But seriously F is the key, since original horns didn't have valves composers would have two sets of two horns and they would fill in the gaps that each key couldn't play. Mozart had some exceptional pieces where this takes place.
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John Finnemore on the French horn/cor anglais:
"I was idly wondering why the cor anglais has a French name meaning āEnglish hornā, and the French horn has an English name meaningā¦ well, āFrench hornā. I looked it up, even though I knew there would just be some reasonable but rather dull explanation.
"There isnāt. There is a completely bonkers explanation, in both cases. Hereās the first.
"So. The cor anglais isnāt English, or French. But thatās nothing, because another thing it isnāt isā¦ a horn. Itās basically an overgrown oboe, and itās from Silesia. But being thin with a bulb on the end, it looks a little like the trumpets angels are shown playing in medieval art.
"Or at least it did to the Germans, who started calling it the Engellisches Horn, or angelās horn. Can you see the hilarious misunderstanding thatās about to happen? Well, that happened. The Italians thought the Germans called it the English Horn, so they translated it to corno inglese. The French got it from the Italians, and called it the cor anglais. The British got it from the French, and presumably stared at it, thought āWe canāt call that an English horn! Itās nothing to do with us, weāve only just this minute seen one!ā ā¦and I suppose decided just to keep the French name to save embarrassment.
"But that is rationality itself compared to what happened with the āFrenchā horn.
"Right. The French horn. It isnāt French, or Englishā¦ but it is a horn. So thatās something. (In fact, horn players just call it āthe hornā, and they wish you would too, but they canāt make you.) This story is simpler than the cor anglais one, but even more gloriously stupid.
"The French were famous for making beautiful hunting-horn type horns: curly tubes that made a nice noise when you blew through them. Then the Germans came up with a more complicated horn with slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you. So British horn players started calling the horns they played in orchestras French Horns, to make it clear they were having nothing to do with those funny looking new German horns with all the bits hanging off them. But the thing isā¦ slides and crooks and valves and what-have-you are a really good idea. You can play tunes with them and everything. So, before long, in a brilliantly British combination of ruthless pragmatism and equally ruthless face-saving, British horn players were playing German hornsā¦ but still calling them French horns.
"In summary then: the cor anglais, or English horn, is a Silesian oboe that the Italians thought the Germans thought was English, but the Germans actually thought looked angelic. Whereas the French horn is a German horn that the British called the French horn to distinguish it from the German hornā¦ which is what it is.
"All clear? Good. Carry on."
This reminds me of my rant about how 'English Muffins' are neither 'English' nor 'Muffins'. Whereas 'French Toast' is arguably 'French' (or at least there's an tenuous culinary connection) and arguably 'Toast'.
