Talking to another parent yesterday and it seems we are among the last two holdouts giving our kids their own devices.
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@chu
When I was old enough to drive, like other kids I knew, the emergency communication strategy was a dime in my wallet. (Do pay phones still exist?)they've been taken down where I live.
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when my kids were in primary school (800m walk home) I had a discussion with another mother and she said she'd given her daughter a smartphone to protect her. When I asked "What from?" she answered "Pedophiles." And so I laughed and said "She's more likely to meet pedophiles on the internet with that phone than on the 5 minute walk home from school." That was not what she wanted to hear.
Nobody likes the truth.
How is that phone supposed to protect her from pedos anyways. Use it as brick to throw at them?
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they've been taken down where I live.
Same. There used to be one on the corner where the crossing guard is but it's just a slab of concrete now.
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Talking to another parent yesterday and it seems we are among the last two holdouts giving our kids their own devices.
They have devices they can use but they aren't "theirs".
Some have smart phones already (age range 9-11). Many have smart watches.
When I voiced privacy concerns to other parents, I was made to feel like the bad guy for failing to protect my kids. They are the good parents for giving their kids the ability to call for help in case something happens on the way home. I live in the city and I'm pretty much at the furthest corner of our dense district at a whopping 800m from the school.
There's also the old Chinese saying, two actually I'd like to share. "Far away water can't save a near fire", and "close neighbours are better than far away relatives".
So my kids have an emergency on the walk home. What kind of community would I have to live in to feel like they can't scream for help or walk into the corner store for help?
This is all part of the erosion of society. Don't depend on your community. Give a subscription to tech bros to keep your children safe.
Friends, this is f'd. I should not need to depend on tech to guard my kids against a mythical threat when I should have neighbors and friends all around who contribute to the well being of all of us.
If your solution to safety is tech and not community building, your priorities are f'd and you're letting the tech bros eat what's left of your brain.
I hate when I'm made to feel like a bad parent for not caring about my children's safety.
Tech is not the path to child safety.
@chu you would actually not be allowed by the school to let your pre senior school children walk home alone. They have to be handed to a known adult
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they've been taken down where I live.
I saw one in a bar, but it was non functional. Just a piece of vintage decor.
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Nobody likes the truth.
How is that phone supposed to protect her from pedos anyways. Use it as brick to throw at them?
LOL
Now that my kids have phones to take to school (their passes for public transport are on there and sometimes teachers will open up the WiFi and let them do stuff and the secretaries are apparently hesitant to let kids use the landline to call parents when they need to), the most serious conversation I've had with them is to please not look at other people's screens... I remember Rotten dot com and I know that some kids like to shock others... so I've told them there are things you can't unsee and things that will cause nightmares for weeks.
We also have a rule that us parents know the passwords and will occasionally go through their messages. The phones are not to be taken to bed. The parental controls are set so there's a time-limit on the screen being on and on the apps that can be used.
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Talking to another parent yesterday and it seems we are among the last two holdouts giving our kids their own devices.
They have devices they can use but they aren't "theirs".
Some have smart phones already (age range 9-11). Many have smart watches.
When I voiced privacy concerns to other parents, I was made to feel like the bad guy for failing to protect my kids. They are the good parents for giving their kids the ability to call for help in case something happens on the way home. I live in the city and I'm pretty much at the furthest corner of our dense district at a whopping 800m from the school.
There's also the old Chinese saying, two actually I'd like to share. "Far away water can't save a near fire", and "close neighbours are better than far away relatives".
So my kids have an emergency on the walk home. What kind of community would I have to live in to feel like they can't scream for help or walk into the corner store for help?
This is all part of the erosion of society. Don't depend on your community. Give a subscription to tech bros to keep your children safe.
Friends, this is f'd. I should not need to depend on tech to guard my kids against a mythical threat when I should have neighbors and friends all around who contribute to the well being of all of us.
If your solution to safety is tech and not community building, your priorities are f'd and you're letting the tech bros eat what's left of your brain.
I hate when I'm made to feel like a bad parent for not caring about my children's safety.
Tech is not the path to child safety.
@chu hi. So much this.
I'm 47 without living parents, never had siblings or children. My closest relatives that I actually trust and would call when I "need an adult" are 11 hours away. I live in my childhood home with some of the same neighbors I've lived on this block with since the 80s. Guess who I text my flight itinerary to, who helps me dig my car out of the snow, who checks on me when a strange car is in front of my driveway?
I'd be lost without my neighbors
️ -
LOL
Now that my kids have phones to take to school (their passes for public transport are on there and sometimes teachers will open up the WiFi and let them do stuff and the secretaries are apparently hesitant to let kids use the landline to call parents when they need to), the most serious conversation I've had with them is to please not look at other people's screens... I remember Rotten dot com and I know that some kids like to shock others... so I've told them there are things you can't unsee and things that will cause nightmares for weeks.
We also have a rule that us parents know the passwords and will occasionally go through their messages. The phones are not to be taken to bed. The parental controls are set so there's a time-limit on the screen being on and on the apps that can be used.
And in all seriousness, the self protection I gave my daughter is martial art training since age 6. It was a top priority for me as I suffer from trauma, every woman I know suffers from trauma of one sort or another via harassment or assault. I started looking into martial art schools near us since the stroller days.
Just turned 11 and will likely do her black belt testing in December. She thankfully takes her training seriously. I was looking at some of the kicks the other day. She can break boards quite easily (she has to for tests) but I was thinking a bit more growing (she's physically small for 11) her speed and technique can probably break a rib pretty soon.
The reality is that by the time she calls for help, it'll be too late. How long does it take me to get there? She needs to down the guy and run to somewhere where people are who can help her. The phone is a false sense of security. Self defense will at least buy her time to run. And boy can she run. She's fast.
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Talking to another parent yesterday and it seems we are among the last two holdouts giving our kids their own devices.
They have devices they can use but they aren't "theirs".
Some have smart phones already (age range 9-11). Many have smart watches.
When I voiced privacy concerns to other parents, I was made to feel like the bad guy for failing to protect my kids. They are the good parents for giving their kids the ability to call for help in case something happens on the way home. I live in the city and I'm pretty much at the furthest corner of our dense district at a whopping 800m from the school.
There's also the old Chinese saying, two actually I'd like to share. "Far away water can't save a near fire", and "close neighbours are better than far away relatives".
So my kids have an emergency on the walk home. What kind of community would I have to live in to feel like they can't scream for help or walk into the corner store for help?
This is all part of the erosion of society. Don't depend on your community. Give a subscription to tech bros to keep your children safe.
Friends, this is f'd. I should not need to depend on tech to guard my kids against a mythical threat when I should have neighbors and friends all around who contribute to the well being of all of us.
If your solution to safety is tech and not community building, your priorities are f'd and you're letting the tech bros eat what's left of your brain.
I hate when I'm made to feel like a bad parent for not caring about my children's safety.
Tech is not the path to child safety.
@chu
You're not bad at all. The most I did for my kids were ten dollar dumb phones from Tracfone, so they could learn how to call someone. Also, kids lose things. There was no way I was going to get them something that expensive.One of mine liked to run off at random, and I did think about tracking devices, but more like little a little speaker that would go off if they went too far. The kid got over it eventually. Learning to talk to and assess the people around them is a much better skill to learn at that age.
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Talking to another parent yesterday and it seems we are among the last two holdouts giving our kids their own devices.
They have devices they can use but they aren't "theirs".
Some have smart phones already (age range 9-11). Many have smart watches.
When I voiced privacy concerns to other parents, I was made to feel like the bad guy for failing to protect my kids. They are the good parents for giving their kids the ability to call for help in case something happens on the way home. I live in the city and I'm pretty much at the furthest corner of our dense district at a whopping 800m from the school.
There's also the old Chinese saying, two actually I'd like to share. "Far away water can't save a near fire", and "close neighbours are better than far away relatives".
So my kids have an emergency on the walk home. What kind of community would I have to live in to feel like they can't scream for help or walk into the corner store for help?
This is all part of the erosion of society. Don't depend on your community. Give a subscription to tech bros to keep your children safe.
Friends, this is f'd. I should not need to depend on tech to guard my kids against a mythical threat when I should have neighbors and friends all around who contribute to the well being of all of us.
If your solution to safety is tech and not community building, your priorities are f'd and you're letting the tech bros eat what's left of your brain.
I hate when I'm made to feel like a bad parent for not caring about my children's safety.
Tech is not the path to child safety.
@chu You're not the bad parent, they are. They've just been given the right soundbites to justify to themselves the easiest choices they could make in the face of everyday pressures and commercially incentivised persuasion.
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Talking to another parent yesterday and it seems we are among the last two holdouts giving our kids their own devices.
They have devices they can use but they aren't "theirs".
Some have smart phones already (age range 9-11). Many have smart watches.
When I voiced privacy concerns to other parents, I was made to feel like the bad guy for failing to protect my kids. They are the good parents for giving their kids the ability to call for help in case something happens on the way home. I live in the city and I'm pretty much at the furthest corner of our dense district at a whopping 800m from the school.
There's also the old Chinese saying, two actually I'd like to share. "Far away water can't save a near fire", and "close neighbours are better than far away relatives".
So my kids have an emergency on the walk home. What kind of community would I have to live in to feel like they can't scream for help or walk into the corner store for help?
This is all part of the erosion of society. Don't depend on your community. Give a subscription to tech bros to keep your children safe.
Friends, this is f'd. I should not need to depend on tech to guard my kids against a mythical threat when I should have neighbors and friends all around who contribute to the well being of all of us.
If your solution to safety is tech and not community building, your priorities are f'd and you're letting the tech bros eat what's left of your brain.
I hate when I'm made to feel like a bad parent for not caring about my children's safety.
Tech is not the path to child safety.
Thank you for this.
A lot of people forget that the lesson we need to learn quickly is a very human one.
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Our plan is a dumb phone or land line around grade 7. Haven't thought it through yet.
Maybe a family line that's a dumb phone so if they really need it, it can leave the house and isn't connected to the wall.... But it's not "their" phone, it's a family phone that both can give the number to friends etc. I will need to see what's realistic/affordable when the time comes.
I know I can't delay the smart phone thing. That'll be a university thing I hope though when they are more mature and developed.
On one hand, not sure I can hold off that long. On the other hand, there seems to be some rejection as Austin says among the younger generation.... So maybe? (As I type this on my smart phone. Lol)
@chu @MaryAustinBooks @MisuseCase It needs to be a pre university thing I think. There's a common theme living in a university town that students get into messes with the stuff they weren't allowed before they arrived.
Those whose parents banned alcohol totally get drunk, those who have no experience in other things go off the deep end there whatever it is (money, food, ...) as there's nobody around to keep them on the level. -
@chu @MaryAustinBooks @MisuseCase It needs to be a pre university thing I think. There's a common theme living in a university town that students get into messes with the stuff they weren't allowed before they arrived.
Those whose parents banned alcohol totally get drunk, those who have no experience in other things go off the deep end there whatever it is (money, food, ...) as there's nobody around to keep them on the level.@etchedpixels @MaryAustinBooks @MisuseCase
True. We are doing things mostly balanced. We don't eat a lot of processed foods and their Halloween candy isn't "banned" but it mostly just sits there. They are allowed but now uninterested.
They are allowed sips of beer. Weed is legal now and we talked about if they wanted to try it, we could do it together kind of thing. Not trying to make things taboo and desired sins.
Tech needs to be the same. Not taboo. Monitored and respected. Helps that dad is a professor in the tech field. He literally lectures on AI and the kids hear a lot of what's happening in the industry.
We recently had to replace our stove. We got the dumbest one we could find. Anything with wifi was automatically filtered out. They understand the reasoning behind most of these decisions and get that technology is a tool for good and bad.
They are watching a science show right now that's on YouTube (on a small laptop) but they get in trouble if they follow the recommended algorithms and click through anywhere.
You're right. Sudden freedom is not good either.
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Talking to another parent yesterday and it seems we are among the last two holdouts giving our kids their own devices.
They have devices they can use but they aren't "theirs".
Some have smart phones already (age range 9-11). Many have smart watches.
When I voiced privacy concerns to other parents, I was made to feel like the bad guy for failing to protect my kids. They are the good parents for giving their kids the ability to call for help in case something happens on the way home. I live in the city and I'm pretty much at the furthest corner of our dense district at a whopping 800m from the school.
There's also the old Chinese saying, two actually I'd like to share. "Far away water can't save a near fire", and "close neighbours are better than far away relatives".
So my kids have an emergency on the walk home. What kind of community would I have to live in to feel like they can't scream for help or walk into the corner store for help?
This is all part of the erosion of society. Don't depend on your community. Give a subscription to tech bros to keep your children safe.
Friends, this is f'd. I should not need to depend on tech to guard my kids against a mythical threat when I should have neighbors and friends all around who contribute to the well being of all of us.
If your solution to safety is tech and not community building, your priorities are f'd and you're letting the tech bros eat what's left of your brain.
I hate when I'm made to feel like a bad parent for not caring about my children's safety.
Tech is not the path to child safety.
And of course if they think the kids can call someone faster than a bad guy can rip that watch or phone away from them, they're fairly delusional. Hundreds of kids disappear every day and pretty much all of them have phones and watches now.
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And in all seriousness, the self protection I gave my daughter is martial art training since age 6. It was a top priority for me as I suffer from trauma, every woman I know suffers from trauma of one sort or another via harassment or assault. I started looking into martial art schools near us since the stroller days.
Just turned 11 and will likely do her black belt testing in December. She thankfully takes her training seriously. I was looking at some of the kicks the other day. She can break boards quite easily (she has to for tests) but I was thinking a bit more growing (she's physically small for 11) her speed and technique can probably break a rib pretty soon.
The reality is that by the time she calls for help, it'll be too late. How long does it take me to get there? She needs to down the guy and run to somewhere where people are who can help her. The phone is a false sense of security. Self defense will at least buy her time to run. And boy can she run. She's fast.
@chu @fritzoids
I admire you and your daughter for the martial arts.
However one thing I've learnt from 15 years of being a Tai Chi student (the nearest I've ever come to any martial art) is to avoid getting into 'situations' in the first place, to be aware of my surroundings, and be aware of other people's body language. Also to use others' momentum and movements against them.
Defence can be far more valuable than attack. I have absolutely no idea what any other martial art teaches, but these sound pretty sensible approaches to me. -
Talking to another parent yesterday and it seems we are among the last two holdouts giving our kids their own devices.
They have devices they can use but they aren't "theirs".
Some have smart phones already (age range 9-11). Many have smart watches.
When I voiced privacy concerns to other parents, I was made to feel like the bad guy for failing to protect my kids. They are the good parents for giving their kids the ability to call for help in case something happens on the way home. I live in the city and I'm pretty much at the furthest corner of our dense district at a whopping 800m from the school.
There's also the old Chinese saying, two actually I'd like to share. "Far away water can't save a near fire", and "close neighbours are better than far away relatives".
So my kids have an emergency on the walk home. What kind of community would I have to live in to feel like they can't scream for help or walk into the corner store for help?
This is all part of the erosion of society. Don't depend on your community. Give a subscription to tech bros to keep your children safe.
Friends, this is f'd. I should not need to depend on tech to guard my kids against a mythical threat when I should have neighbors and friends all around who contribute to the well being of all of us.
If your solution to safety is tech and not community building, your priorities are f'd and you're letting the tech bros eat what's left of your brain.
I hate when I'm made to feel like a bad parent for not caring about my children's safety.
Tech is not the path to child safety.
@chu My grandkids are 8 and 10. Their parents plus all of us grandparents are resisting phones with everything we’ve got.
We will lose the battle at some point because the 10 year old is active in dance and theatre. She’s going to need to coordinate rides and such. But we will wait just as long as possible.
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@chu @fritzoids
I admire you and your daughter for the martial arts.
However one thing I've learnt from 15 years of being a Tai Chi student (the nearest I've ever come to any martial art) is to avoid getting into 'situations' in the first place, to be aware of my surroundings, and be aware of other people's body language. Also to use others' momentum and movements against them.
Defence can be far more valuable than attack. I have absolutely no idea what any other martial art teaches, but these sound pretty sensible approaches to me.Agree in principle but also want to add that as women, our threats normally come from people we know in situations that start off non threatening. Random, on street violence is rare and not even the thing I'm honestly most afraid of.
I watched 8 de-escalate a situation in the playground last week. They know the basics of staying away from threats but every woman will tell you, those aren't the ones we fear most. It's the ones coming from trusted people when we least expect it and wished we kicked our way out of there. Had I landed my attacker in the ER, there would be no questions about whether or not I asked for it.
It was in what I thought was a safe space with someone I trusted. Those threat assessment techniques fail us because these people get there by perfecting a non threatening persona. And they are the nicest people to us, to kids, to everyone.
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Talking to another parent yesterday and it seems we are among the last two holdouts giving our kids their own devices.
They have devices they can use but they aren't "theirs".
Some have smart phones already (age range 9-11). Many have smart watches.
When I voiced privacy concerns to other parents, I was made to feel like the bad guy for failing to protect my kids. They are the good parents for giving their kids the ability to call for help in case something happens on the way home. I live in the city and I'm pretty much at the furthest corner of our dense district at a whopping 800m from the school.
There's also the old Chinese saying, two actually I'd like to share. "Far away water can't save a near fire", and "close neighbours are better than far away relatives".
So my kids have an emergency on the walk home. What kind of community would I have to live in to feel like they can't scream for help or walk into the corner store for help?
This is all part of the erosion of society. Don't depend on your community. Give a subscription to tech bros to keep your children safe.
Friends, this is f'd. I should not need to depend on tech to guard my kids against a mythical threat when I should have neighbors and friends all around who contribute to the well being of all of us.
If your solution to safety is tech and not community building, your priorities are f'd and you're letting the tech bros eat what's left of your brain.
I hate when I'm made to feel like a bad parent for not caring about my children's safety.
Tech is not the path to child safety.
@chu We never gave our kids any phones. They bought them themselves with the proceeds of paper rounds, babysitting, etc.
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@chu you would actually not be allowed by the school to let your pre senior school children walk home alone. They have to be handed to a known adult
In our school district, the rule is grade 4 they are allowed self dismissal. That means they can walk home alone by then... That's age 9 here.
That's why so many parents started to get devides at that age.
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@chu
In the US we've got a bunch of GenZers going back to flip phones of their own accord. As is often the case around here, the kids are wiser than their elders.I'm an elder millennial and remember the pre-internet days. The children yearn for flip phones and video stores, and I agree with them.
@MaryAustinBooks @chu Always had a quarter in my pocket for a payphone, but my commute was long as a kid.
