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  3. Many of the people I do have online conversations with speak English as their first language.

Many of the people I do have online conversations with speak English as their first language.

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  • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

    (Sparked by some of the comments to my recent article about Cory Doctorow telling me how my writing sucks and is unreadable because of grammar mistakes and typos.)

    buwel@social.tchncs.deB This user is from outside of this forum
    buwel@social.tchncs.deB This user is from outside of this forum
    buwel@social.tchncs.de
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #9

    @tante now that is just very bad form!

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    • ashedryden@xoxo.zoneA ashedryden@xoxo.zone

      @tante if I didn’t see you post in German every so often, I would think you were a native English speaker 🤷🏼‍♀️

      tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
      tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
      tante@tldr.nettime.org
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #10

      @Ashedryden that is very kind of you to say

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

        (Sparked by some of the comments to my recent article about Cory Doctorow telling me how my writing sucks and is unreadable because of grammar mistakes and typos.)

        troublewithwords@wandering.shopT This user is from outside of this forum
        troublewithwords@wandering.shopT This user is from outside of this forum
        troublewithwords@wandering.shop
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #11

        @tante As a native English speaker and trained, professional English writer, let me reassure you that your writing is excellent.

        tante@tldr.nettime.orgT 1 Reply Last reply
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        • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

          Many of the people I do have online conversations with speak English as their first language. I kinda get by but you native speakers really underestimate how hard it is to express oneself in a foreign language. Concepts work differently, metaphors don't really translate, references you have used for decades don't make sense.

          tournesol@peculiar.floristT This user is from outside of this forum
          tournesol@peculiar.floristT This user is from outside of this forum
          tournesol@peculiar.florist
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #12

          @tante the number of times I catch myself using a frech idiom in english that make sense only to french speakers ​​

          tante@tldr.nettime.orgT 1 Reply Last reply
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          • troublewithwords@wandering.shopT troublewithwords@wandering.shop

            @tante As a native English speaker and trained, professional English writer, let me reassure you that your writing is excellent.

            tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
            tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
            tante@tldr.nettime.org
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #13

            @troublewithwords thank you, I appreciate you saying that

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            • tournesol@peculiar.floristT tournesol@peculiar.florist

              @tante the number of times I catch myself using a frech idiom in english that make sense only to french speakers ​​

              tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
              tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
              tante@tldr.nettime.org
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #14

              @tournesol yeah. I'm basically just writing German with the words replaced.

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              • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                Like in German I am actually somewhat eloquent and texts I write don't look like a person with a head injury wrote them.

                jorismeys@mstdn.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                jorismeys@mstdn.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                jorismeys@mstdn.social
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #15

                @tante
                You english is fine. That can one understand. 😉

                (No seriously, from one non-native speaker to another, your english is impressive.)

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                  (Sparked by some of the comments to my recent article about Cory Doctorow telling me how my writing sucks and is unreadable because of grammar mistakes and typos.)

                  impertinenzija@mastodon.socialI This user is from outside of this forum
                  impertinenzija@mastodon.socialI This user is from outside of this forum
                  impertinenzija@mastodon.social
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #16

                  @tante If ppl are unable to bring up some really valid points against your reasoning, they will go as low as starting to pick your grammar and wording apart. No surprise there. Don't let them get to you.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                    (Sparked by some of the comments to my recent article about Cory Doctorow telling me how my writing sucks and is unreadable because of grammar mistakes and typos.)

                    elizayer@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                    elizayer@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                    elizayer@mastodon.social
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #17

                    @tante This reminds me of that "semantic ablation" article from last week: https://www.theregister.com/2026/02/16/semantic_ablation_ai_writing/

                    I prefer real character of actual writing, and there's an extra... energy? tension? in English written by nonnative speakers. It gives a glimpse into alternative ways of slicing concepts that enriches rather than depletes the writing.

                    Screw the naysayers.

                    tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tofticles@helvede.netT 2 Replies Last reply
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                    • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                      (Sparked by some of the comments to my recent article about Cory Doctorow telling me how my writing sucks and is unreadable because of grammar mistakes and typos.)

                      rothorsekid@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                      rothorsekid@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                      rothorsekid@mastodon.social
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #18

                      @tante you got the point across amazingly well. There were clumsy expressions, but few and far between. Better than I could ever express myself, and I've been learning, reading and speaking english regularly for over 40 years. I guess those people had to attack the form because it was too hard to find fault in the content.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                        (Sparked by some of the comments to my recent article about Cory Doctorow telling me how my writing sucks and is unreadable because of grammar mistakes and typos.)

                        cptsuperlative@toot.catC This user is from outside of this forum
                        cptsuperlative@toot.catC This user is from outside of this forum
                        cptsuperlative@toot.cat
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #19

                        @tante

                        Such accusations are obvious and ridiculous deflections.

                        These people are not being honest.

                        Please do not believe them.

                        (A native English speaker)

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                          @grrrr_shark yeah that captures it well. I also can't fully be "me" in English

                          varx@defcon.socialV This user is from outside of this forum
                          varx@defcon.socialV This user is from outside of this forum
                          varx@defcon.social
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #20

                          @tante @grrrr_shark and the better you are in the foreign language, the worse it gets because people don't have that subconscious "oh this is their 2nd language. I better speak simply" trigger.

                          Paul Taylor has a great bit about this (Warning: strong language in both English and French. You can turn on translated CC if you don't speak French)

                          https://youtu.be/EuxN0wqhNfw

                          grrrr_shark@supervolcano.angryshark.euG 2 Replies Last reply
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                          • elizayer@mastodon.socialE elizayer@mastodon.social

                            @tante This reminds me of that "semantic ablation" article from last week: https://www.theregister.com/2026/02/16/semantic_ablation_ai_writing/

                            I prefer real character of actual writing, and there's an extra... energy? tension? in English written by nonnative speakers. It gives a glimpse into alternative ways of slicing concepts that enriches rather than depletes the writing.

                            Screw the naysayers.

                            tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                            tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                            tante@tldr.nettime.org
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #21

                            @elizayer oh that article sounds interesting (and will provide a great excuse for my ideosyncratic writing style ;))

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                              Many of the people I do have online conversations with speak English as their first language. I kinda get by but you native speakers really underestimate how hard it is to express oneself in a foreign language. Concepts work differently, metaphors don't really translate, references you have used for decades don't make sense.

                              simonhain@social.tchncs.deS This user is from outside of this forum
                              simonhain@social.tchncs.deS This user is from outside of this forum
                              simonhain@social.tchncs.de
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #22

                              @tante I speak English quite well, but when reading a psychological book in English i realized that speaking the language and intuitively grasping its concepts are two very different things.
                              For all the samples, i had to translate them in my head, then imagine how i would react spontaneously - which was not working at all!

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                                (Sparked by some of the comments to my recent article about Cory Doctorow telling me how my writing sucks and is unreadable because of grammar mistakes and typos.)

                                dzwiedziu@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                dzwiedziu@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                dzwiedziu@mastodon.social
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #23

                                @tante One should be weary of purists of any kind.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                                  Many of the people I do have online conversations with speak English as their first language. I kinda get by but you native speakers really underestimate how hard it is to express oneself in a foreign language. Concepts work differently, metaphors don't really translate, references you have used for decades don't make sense.

                                  taaldader@waag.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  taaldader@waag.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  taaldader@waag.social
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #24

                                  @tante As explained very well in one book in the form of two books, written more or less simultaneously by two people in two languages at once (they were conferring frequently):

                                  Douglas Hofstadter: Surfaces and Essences - Analogy as the Fuel and Fire of Thinking,

                                  Emmanuel Sander: L'Analogie. Cœur de la pensée.

                                  It’s from 2013 and it’s a real tour de force.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                                    (Sparked by some of the comments to my recent article about Cory Doctorow telling me how my writing sucks and is unreadable because of grammar mistakes and typos.)

                                    alper@rls.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                    alper@rls.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                    alper@rls.social
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #25

                                    @tante You should’ve run it through an LLM.

                                    tante@tldr.nettime.orgT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • alper@rls.socialA alper@rls.social

                                      @tante You should’ve run it through an LLM.

                                      tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tante@tldr.nettime.org
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #26

                                      @alper with your responses I am never quite sure if they are sarcastic, an attack or both 😉

                                      alper@rls.socialA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                                        @alper with your responses I am never quite sure if they are sarcastic, an attack or both 😉

                                        alper@rls.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        alper@rls.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        alper@rls.social
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #27

                                        @tante They can be all at the same time!

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                                          Many of the people I do have online conversations with speak English as their first language. I kinda get by but you native speakers really underestimate how hard it is to express oneself in a foreign language. Concepts work differently, metaphors don't really translate, references you have used for decades don't make sense.

                                          tomjennings@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tomjennings@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tomjennings@tldr.nettime.org
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #28

                                          @tante

                                          People who speak/read/etc more than one language are superior thinkers and understand more. (EDIT: other things being equal, etc.)

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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