Install party to set up #DeltaChat servers, created several local test servers, and promoted it.
-
Install party to set up #DeltaChat servers, created several local test servers, and promoted it.
This was our community's final in-person gathering of the year for free software enthusiasts, held privately.
We designated the year 1404 (in the Persian calendar) as the year for promoting free software culture.Based on this, we organized various events and conferences to introduce this culture, and similarly pursued diverse promotional approaches to amplify the voice of free software.
The adoption of free software has had positive impacts in Iran.
Now, with a record of 500 active Delta Chat servers during Iran's internet blackout period, we made an effort to hold this final gathering.We have named the new year as the year for promoting decentralized #free_software tools and will continue to pursue it.
May the new year in a free Iran allow us to both host events introducing books like #Ada and #Zangemann, and promote free, decentralized tools.
-
Install party to set up #DeltaChat servers, created several local test servers, and promoted it.
This was our community's final in-person gathering of the year for free software enthusiasts, held privately.
We designated the year 1404 (in the Persian calendar) as the year for promoting free software culture.Based on this, we organized various events and conferences to introduce this culture, and similarly pursued diverse promotional approaches to amplify the voice of free software.
The adoption of free software has had positive impacts in Iran.
Now, with a record of 500 active Delta Chat servers during Iran's internet blackout period, we made an effort to hold this final gathering.We have named the new year as the year for promoting decentralized #free_software tools and will continue to pursue it.
May the new year in a free Iran allow us to both host events introducing books like #Ada and #Zangemann, and promote free, decentralized tools.
@abbas_dp Nothing like drinking tea, touching grass, and installing some libre stuff
-
Install party to set up #DeltaChat servers, created several local test servers, and promoted it.
This was our community's final in-person gathering of the year for free software enthusiasts, held privately.
We designated the year 1404 (in the Persian calendar) as the year for promoting free software culture.Based on this, we organized various events and conferences to introduce this culture, and similarly pursued diverse promotional approaches to amplify the voice of free software.
The adoption of free software has had positive impacts in Iran.
Now, with a record of 500 active Delta Chat servers during Iran's internet blackout period, we made an effort to hold this final gathering.We have named the new year as the year for promoting decentralized #free_software tools and will continue to pursue it.
May the new year in a free Iran allow us to both host events introducing books like #Ada and #Zangemann, and promote free, decentralized tools.
@abbas_dp wow - 500!
-
Install party to set up #DeltaChat servers, created several local test servers, and promoted it.
This was our community's final in-person gathering of the year for free software enthusiasts, held privately.
We designated the year 1404 (in the Persian calendar) as the year for promoting free software culture.Based on this, we organized various events and conferences to introduce this culture, and similarly pursued diverse promotional approaches to amplify the voice of free software.
The adoption of free software has had positive impacts in Iran.
Now, with a record of 500 active Delta Chat servers during Iran's internet blackout period, we made an effort to hold this final gathering.We have named the new year as the year for promoting decentralized #free_software tools and will continue to pursue it.
May the new year in a free Iran allow us to both host events introducing books like #Ada and #Zangemann, and promote free, decentralized tools.
Congratulations.
Please be careful and safe.
Peace.
(Don't forget, Delta Chat can be installed as a Persistent app and used via The TOR Network on a TAILS OS USB thumb-drive.)
-
Install party to set up #DeltaChat servers, created several local test servers, and promoted it.
This was our community's final in-person gathering of the year for free software enthusiasts, held privately.
We designated the year 1404 (in the Persian calendar) as the year for promoting free software culture.Based on this, we organized various events and conferences to introduce this culture, and similarly pursued diverse promotional approaches to amplify the voice of free software.
The adoption of free software has had positive impacts in Iran.
Now, with a record of 500 active Delta Chat servers during Iran's internet blackout period, we made an effort to hold this final gathering.We have named the new year as the year for promoting decentralized #free_software tools and will continue to pursue it.
May the new year in a free Iran allow us to both host events introducing books like #Ada and #Zangemann, and promote free, decentralized tools.
@abbas_dp congratulations! You have done an incredible job showing and living the power of free and open source decentralized infrastructure and culture! We are very grateful and humbled that you could put to use our now years long efforts on providing decentralized resilient #foss messaging infra and apps, for anyone to use, inspect and modify! Wishing all of you the best of luck, health and safety!
-
@abbas_dp congratulations! You have done an incredible job showing and living the power of free and open source decentralized infrastructure and culture! We are very grateful and humbled that you could put to use our now years long efforts on providing decentralized resilient #foss messaging infra and apps, for anyone to use, inspect and modify! Wishing all of you the best of luck, health and safety!
@delta There are people who do not use Delta Chat because it lacks "end-to-end encryption" and quantum encryption. Will these features be implemented in Delta Chat in the near future?
-
@delta There are people who do not use Delta Chat because it lacks "end-to-end encryption" and quantum encryption. Will these features be implemented in Delta Chat in the near future?
@qyahxm of course delta chat supports end-to-end encryption and a pretty solid and audited form at that. See https://delta.chat/en/help#e2ee for more details.
-
@qyahxm of course delta chat supports end-to-end encryption and a pretty solid and audited form at that. See https://delta.chat/en/help#e2ee for more details.
@delta I apologise, but I mean "direct secrecy". The translator translated it incorrectly.
-
@delta I apologise, but I mean "direct secrecy". The translator translated it incorrectly.
@qyahxm please read the FAQ section we just linked. It discusses encryption and protocol details in more detail. Look for autocrypt2. The best place to discuss this further is the support forum. If you go to https://delta.chat you might see a localized version of the FAQ (top right)
-
@qyahxm please read the FAQ section we just linked. It discusses encryption and protocol details in more detail. Look for autocrypt2. The best place to discuss this further is the support forum. If you go to https://delta.chat you might see a localized version of the FAQ (top right)
@delta Thank you. I have read it. I hope that this (direct secrecy and quantum encryption) will be implemented in Delta Chat in the near future. I wish you success in this endeavour. Thank you.
-
@delta I apologise, but I mean "direct secrecy". The translator translated it incorrectly.
@delta I figure @qyahxm is translating from Russian? "прямая секретность" is a silly attempt at word-for-word translation of "forward secrecy" that entirely loses its meaning but basically the answer is "yeah, very recently with Autocrypt 2": https://delta.chat/en/help#pfs
There is a reason Wikipedia in Russian doesn't translate the term in the title: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_forward_secrecy – wherever the term is used, there seems to also be knowledge of its English counterpart and there's just no good translation for it.
-
@delta I figure @qyahxm is translating from Russian? "прямая секретность" is a silly attempt at word-for-word translation of "forward secrecy" that entirely loses its meaning but basically the answer is "yeah, very recently with Autocrypt 2": https://delta.chat/en/help#pfs
There is a reason Wikipedia in Russian doesn't translate the term in the title: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_forward_secrecy – wherever the term is used, there seems to also be knowledge of its English counterpart and there's just no good translation for it.
@qyahxm @dside thanks for the explanation! in https://autocrypt2.org context we prefer to talk about "reliable deletion" because it much more directly expresses what "forward secrecy" is about. The property has some kind of mythical sound, but what it really does it making deletion effective against a store-now-decrypt-later attacker who gains access to your device and attempts to undelete messages by decrypting past collected messages.
-
@qyahxm @dside thanks for the explanation! in https://autocrypt2.org context we prefer to talk about "reliable deletion" because it much more directly expresses what "forward secrecy" is about. The property has some kind of mythical sound, but what it really does it making deletion effective against a store-now-decrypt-later attacker who gains access to your device and attempts to undelete messages by decrypting past collected messages.
@delta I'm a decently-informed-but-ultimately-casual observer in the security parts, but the name "forward secrecy" makes more sense to me for what it defines: "secrecy" of the message after it's "forwarded" (sent anywhere else in addition to its destinations — which would include things like wiretapping and late retrieval, which aren't typically seen as forms of forwarding). It makes sense to me mechanically.
I'm not on board with "reliable deletion" because information cannot be reliably deleted without direct control over every single device involved. What you're doing in ACv2 is preserving *secrecy* — rendering retrieval of older messages useless. I can understand how it can be seen as a form of deletion from a user's perspective and making sense to the user is a fair rationale. I just have doubts this choice of words is going to be any easier to explain.
I was explaining the same phenomenon wrt. post deletions on Fediverse literally yesterday
-
@delta I'm a decently-informed-but-ultimately-casual observer in the security parts, but the name "forward secrecy" makes more sense to me for what it defines: "secrecy" of the message after it's "forwarded" (sent anywhere else in addition to its destinations — which would include things like wiretapping and late retrieval, which aren't typically seen as forms of forwarding). It makes sense to me mechanically.
I'm not on board with "reliable deletion" because information cannot be reliably deleted without direct control over every single device involved. What you're doing in ACv2 is preserving *secrecy* — rendering retrieval of older messages useless. I can understand how it can be seen as a form of deletion from a user's perspective and making sense to the user is a fair rationale. I just have doubts this choice of words is going to be any easier to explain.
I was explaining the same phenomenon wrt. post deletions on Fediverse literally yesterday
@dside @delta @qyahxm Here by reliable deletion they mean that encrypted copies can not be later used to get the original message. Do see the interesting talk where they discuss this (and also say the same thing about control of other devices): https://autocrypt2.org/#/
The only thing I think is saddening is that some people think that "reliable deletion" *should* include some guarantees of plaintext and key removal by all parties. No, it's still useful without that guarantee. And ideally we should have a toggle in the app that actually turns off the behavior of deletion of plaintext. Maybe then people will stop assuming this can't be done. -
This was a DeltaChat installation party event, and sharing photos is not a problem because the individuals are merely participants, not just Delta Chat server admins.
There are approximately over 500 Delta Chat server admins in Iran, and this event was a guide for installing a Delta Chat server and how to use it, as our last gathering of the year.
-
@delta I'm a decently-informed-but-ultimately-casual observer in the security parts, but the name "forward secrecy" makes more sense to me for what it defines: "secrecy" of the message after it's "forwarded" (sent anywhere else in addition to its destinations — which would include things like wiretapping and late retrieval, which aren't typically seen as forms of forwarding). It makes sense to me mechanically.
I'm not on board with "reliable deletion" because information cannot be reliably deleted without direct control over every single device involved. What you're doing in ACv2 is preserving *secrecy* — rendering retrieval of older messages useless. I can understand how it can be seen as a form of deletion from a user's perspective and making sense to the user is a fair rationale. I just have doubts this choice of words is going to be any easier to explain.
I was explaining the same phenomenon wrt. post deletions on Fediverse literally yesterday
@dside the term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_secrecy is unrelated to the concept of "forwarding a message".
It's a very technical term that clearly has gotten popularized. However, its precise meaning is subtle and not intuitively understood, even as the term is widely recognized as some kind of desirable property.
-
@dside @delta @qyahxm Here by reliable deletion they mean that encrypted copies can not be later used to get the original message. Do see the interesting talk where they discuss this (and also say the same thing about control of other devices): https://autocrypt2.org/#/
The only thing I think is saddening is that some people think that "reliable deletion" *should* include some guarantees of plaintext and key removal by all parties. No, it's still useful without that guarantee. And ideally we should have a toggle in the app that actually turns off the behavior of deletion of plaintext. Maybe then people will stop assuming this can't be done.@lyyn that's just what the words mean in the general sense. Redefining them only makes it harder to communicate with wider audiences, which I take it was the rationale behind inventing a new term for this.
I've had a funny conversation from an opposite perspective with a guy from Vivaldi (the browser) last year who was very adamant about asserting their data collection is okay because it's not telemetry as it's known in the professional setting and utterly refused to even consider what their browser is even being accused of – to even begin explaining why accusations don't hold water, which he never got to. In doing so he sounded incredibly dodgy seemingly without realizing it (or knowing full well the accusations are valid, who can tell).
I understand that @delta is probably tired of explaining that FS isn't that big a deal by now… but gaining what is probably the closest thing to FS within the confines of mailing protocols – isn't that a win that can be celebrated?
-
@dside the term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_secrecy is unrelated to the concept of "forwarding a message".
It's a very technical term that clearly has gotten popularized. However, its precise meaning is subtle and not intuitively understood, even as the term is widely recognized as some kind of desirable property.
@hko ...no?
The author might not have meant it to be related in this way, but there is a sensible explanation for the etymology which I just provided. Honestly, I have no clue if it's a popular interpretation. I assume that it probably isn't.
So the idea behind the new term is to escape the existing association as something desirable by stopping the use of it altogether, which'll look to the public eye as the admission of not having it?
It's… a plan, I guess. It might backfire IMO, but I assume you looked into it much deeper than I did. -
@hko ...no?
The author might not have meant it to be related in this way, but there is a sensible explanation for the etymology which I just provided. Honestly, I have no clue if it's a popular interpretation. I assume that it probably isn't.
So the idea behind the new term is to escape the existing association as something desirable by stopping the use of it altogether, which'll look to the public eye as the admission of not having it?
It's… a plan, I guess. It might backfire IMO, but I assume you looked into it much deeper than I did.@dside @hko @lyyn thanks for your friendly communication! the people behind https://autocrypt2.org think it's worthwhile to clarify what cryptographic properties are about. Forward secrecy is about messages that you delete on your chat device become unrecoverable to a server attacker. Nothing more, nothing less. "Reliable Deletion" expresses this cryptographic property much more directly. Using more magic terms makes it too easy to feel falsely secure, or unnecessarily alarmed these days.
-
Install party to set up #DeltaChat servers, created several local test servers, and promoted it.
This was our community's final in-person gathering of the year for free software enthusiasts, held privately.
We designated the year 1404 (in the Persian calendar) as the year for promoting free software culture.Based on this, we organized various events and conferences to introduce this culture, and similarly pursued diverse promotional approaches to amplify the voice of free software.
The adoption of free software has had positive impacts in Iran.
Now, with a record of 500 active Delta Chat servers during Iran's internet blackout period, we made an effort to hold this final gathering.We have named the new year as the year for promoting decentralized #free_software tools and will continue to pursue it.
May the new year in a free Iran allow us to both host events introducing books like #Ada and #Zangemann, and promote free, decentralized tools.
@abbas_dp Great initiative! And thank you for mentioning "Ada & Zangemann" ...didn't knew it before!
https://ada-zangemann.forge.apps.education.fr/livre/en/index_en.html
