Just started migrating from #Todoist to #Superproductivity and became a sponsor of the latter so that Johannes Millan can get closer to his goal of working on this promising open-source task manager full-time.
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@superproductivity Seeing all the LLM-generated code makes me doubt my decision and worry how much review the code is getting. I wonder if the main developer Johannes could speak to that doubt.
The last 5 years or so I've regularly looked out for open-source task managers and even donated to projects I'm not using, hoping they might develop into software that would meet my criteria. One of those other projects is @vikunja. I see on their github that some of the code is also built with Claude and it makes me have the same kind of doubts. https://github.com/go-vikunja/vikunja
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The last 5 years or so I've regularly looked out for open-source task managers and even donated to projects I'm not using, hoping they might develop into software that would meet my criteria. One of those other projects is @vikunja. I see on their github that some of the code is also built with Claude and it makes me have the same kind of doubts. https://github.com/go-vikunja/vikunja
My gold standard for a #taskmanager I would love to use:
- Cross-platform: Linux, Windows, Android (mobile app, desktop, browser)
- #FLOSS
- Quick add to inbox
- Lightning fast
- #GTD compatible
- Filters to organize tasks after context (labels)
- Hotkeys so all actions can be done via keyboard
- Recurring tasks at specific intervals
- Start and due dates
- Collaborate on projects
- Not LLM-coded or with clear boundaries on how LLM-software is used (e.g. localisation for other languages) -
The last 5 years or so I've regularly looked out for open-source task managers and even donated to projects I'm not using, hoping they might develop into software that would meet my criteria. One of those other projects is @vikunja. I see on their github that some of the code is also built with Claude and it makes me have the same kind of doubts. https://github.com/go-vikunja/vikunja
@malte Would love to hear more about what you're concerned about specifically with LLM generated code. Overall code quality or bugs you'd fear make the product worse? Or security concerns?
Even though I use LLMs a bunch, I still review everything. But I also had changes where the LLM found a bug during review that I missed, so I'm wary of stamping all llm generated code as bad.
(I know the slop applications and I really don't want to go that route with Vikunja)
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My gold standard for a #taskmanager I would love to use:
- Cross-platform: Linux, Windows, Android (mobile app, desktop, browser)
- #FLOSS
- Quick add to inbox
- Lightning fast
- #GTD compatible
- Filters to organize tasks after context (labels)
- Hotkeys so all actions can be done via keyboard
- Recurring tasks at specific intervals
- Start and due dates
- Collaborate on projects
- Not LLM-coded or with clear boundaries on how LLM-software is used (e.g. localisation for other languages)@malte Nextcloud? Tasks or Deck (kanban style).
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@malte Would love to hear more about what you're concerned about specifically with LLM generated code. Overall code quality or bugs you'd fear make the product worse? Or security concerns?
Even though I use LLMs a bunch, I still review everything. But I also had changes where the LLM found a bug during review that I missed, so I'm wary of stamping all llm generated code as bad.
(I know the slop applications and I really don't want to go that route with Vikunja)
@kolaente Thanks for responding, that in itself makes me have less doubts as yes, the question of how well the code is reviewed is one of my concerns and being accountable for doubts about LLM-coding is another. I'm not a software developer, but I know enough about LLM-technology to understand its liabilities. My main concern is the risks associated with sloppy code and decision making.
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@malte Nextcloud? Tasks or Deck (kanban style).
@anderslund I wouldn't know - it looks like a question, but maybe you have some experience. Does it meet those criteria?
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Just started migrating from #Todoist to #Superproductivity and became a sponsor of the latter so that Johannes Millan can get closer to his goal of working on this promising open-source task manager full-time. We really need one and Superproductivity does need some improvement (the name being one of them and a more intuitive interface with less mouse clicking being another).
@malte Wanting a task manager with less mouse clicking makes sense. I'm a solo dev building Plan Universe, an iPhone app that lays a plan out as a mind map instead of a list. Not trying to replace anything, honest feedback welcome: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/plan-universe/id6804596738
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@malte Wanting a task manager with less mouse clicking makes sense. I'm a solo dev building Plan Universe, an iPhone app that lays a plan out as a mind map instead of a list. Not trying to replace anything, honest feedback welcome: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/plan-universe/id6804596738
RE: https://radikal.social/@malte/117455762714122110
@mustikk I don't have iPhone. Does it meet some or most of the criteria below?
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@anderslund I wouldn't know - it looks like a question, but maybe you have some experience. Does it meet those criteria?
FLOSS: check
Quick add: There is a textfield, just type and hit return. Same in korganizer, and possibly other apps.
Lightning fast: Dunno
#GTD: I have no idea what that is
Filters: items can be tagged, and filtered by tag
Hotkeys: Depends on client. Not in the NC web interface.
Start/due dates: yes
Collaborate: That is what nextcloud is all about, right?
LLM code? I'd think not, but I have no explicit knowledge about it. Those people are serious, so probably not?I have a tasks app from /e/os on my android phone, on laptop I use kontact. And there are other apps that can sync with calDav calendars out there.
Does support child items.
Lot of what you ask for is properties of the client, I believe. I would look for a client that can sync with calDav.
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FLOSS: check
Quick add: There is a textfield, just type and hit return. Same in korganizer, and possibly other apps.
Lightning fast: Dunno
#GTD: I have no idea what that is
Filters: items can be tagged, and filtered by tag
Hotkeys: Depends on client. Not in the NC web interface.
Start/due dates: yes
Collaborate: That is what nextcloud is all about, right?
LLM code? I'd think not, but I have no explicit knowledge about it. Those people are serious, so probably not?I have a tasks app from /e/os on my android phone, on laptop I use kontact. And there are other apps that can sync with calDav calendars out there.
Does support child items.
Lot of what you ask for is properties of the client, I believe. I would look for a client that can sync with calDav.
@anderslund Thanks! Lots of my criteria and unclear about some of them. Noted down for now.
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@anderslund Thanks! Lots of my criteria and unclear about some of them. Noted down for now.
@malte If you are interested, you can have an account at my server to test
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My gold standard for a #taskmanager I would love to use:
- Cross-platform: Linux, Windows, Android (mobile app, desktop, browser)
- #FLOSS
- Quick add to inbox
- Lightning fast
- #GTD compatible
- Filters to organize tasks after context (labels)
- Hotkeys so all actions can be done via keyboard
- Recurring tasks at specific intervals
- Start and due dates
- Collaborate on projects
- Not LLM-coded or with clear boundaries on how LLM-software is used (e.g. localisation for other languages)@maltelau and I would of course recommend looking into #orgmode (primarily used inside Emacs, but multiple other options exist)
It's text based and IMHO quite neat.
There are people using it as their tool for #gtd and there are open source apps for android.
There's probably a plugin or work done to make it work for your text editor too. (Depending on what you use).
Very interesting discussion and interested to hear more about what you figure out
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Just started migrating from #Todoist to #Superproductivity and became a sponsor of the latter so that Johannes Millan can get closer to his goal of working on this promising open-source task manager full-time. We really need one and Superproductivity does need some improvement (the name being one of them and a more intuitive interface with less mouse clicking being another).
@malte This is a really interesting discussion! Like you I've just switched to #Superproductivity (I'm migrating from #clickup) I never thought about checking the source of the code & I am worried now about all the LLM use too. I'm finding that most of the tools I'm switching too have some level of LLM involvement, code or integration or policies, #joplin is another example.
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@malte This is a really interesting discussion! Like you I've just switched to #Superproductivity (I'm migrating from #clickup) I never thought about checking the source of the code & I am worried now about all the LLM use too. I'm finding that most of the tools I'm switching too have some level of LLM involvement, code or integration or policies, #joplin is another example.
@malte I've been mulling it over a lot in the last few days, and wondering if there was a movement of devs supporting some products by reviewing & cleaning up LLM code? I think, like you asked Johannes, knowing the thinking & decision making behind the work is as important as it's features.
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M malte@radikal.social shared this topic
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@malte I've been mulling it over a lot in the last few days, and wondering if there was a movement of devs supporting some products by reviewing & cleaning up LLM code? I think, like you asked Johannes, knowing the thinking & decision making behind the work is as important as it's features.
@curiouslily Agree, having the transparency is a first minimum step for me to trust the project!
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@superproductivity Seeing all the LLM-generated code makes me doubt my decision and worry how much review the code is getting. I wonder if the main developer Johannes could speak to that doubt.
@malte everyone who works professionally in the area knows that almost everyone uses llm at this point. I understand and probably share some of your concerns, but if you don't want to use software that uses llm in its creation, you'll very soon find that there is not a lot of software left, especially since you won't find a modern OS that doesn't use llm generated code.
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@malte everyone who works professionally in the area knows that almost everyone uses llm at this point. I understand and probably share some of your concerns, but if you don't want to use software that uses llm in its creation, you'll very soon find that there is not a lot of software left, especially since you won't find a modern OS that doesn't use llm generated code.
@superproductivity I did not say that I don't want to use software that uses LLM in its creation.
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My gold standard for a #taskmanager I would love to use:
- Cross-platform: Linux, Windows, Android (mobile app, desktop, browser)
- #FLOSS
- Quick add to inbox
- Lightning fast
- #GTD compatible
- Filters to organize tasks after context (labels)
- Hotkeys so all actions can be done via keyboard
- Recurring tasks at specific intervals
- Start and due dates
- Collaborate on projects
- Not LLM-coded or with clear boundaries on how LLM-software is used (e.g. localisation for other languages)This thread has been a learning experience for me. I have decided to not use #Superproductivity. My criteria have been:
- Being made aware by others of the amount of LLM-generated code in the software
- Voicing concerns about how much review the code is getting. Then getting a response from the main developer that failed to address those concerns and instead read opinions into my concern that are not there.
- Asking a question about whether an article was LLM-generated, getting no response. -
This thread has been a learning experience for me. I have decided to not use #Superproductivity. My criteria have been:
- Being made aware by others of the amount of LLM-generated code in the software
- Voicing concerns about how much review the code is getting. Then getting a response from the main developer that failed to address those concerns and instead read opinions into my concern that are not there.
- Asking a question about whether an article was LLM-generated, getting no response.I put my own decision making process out in the open with an eye to building norms about how we choose which software projects we feel comfortable using and supporting. (And promoting as I have done is supporting). I believe we lack new norms and etiquettes surrounding the use of LLM and sharing openly our thoughts processes in these very concrete cases could be a driving force for setting new standards.
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I put my own decision making process out in the open with an eye to building norms about how we choose which software projects we feel comfortable using and supporting. (And promoting as I have done is supporting). I believe we lack new norms and etiquettes surrounding the use of LLM and sharing openly our thoughts processes in these very concrete cases could be a driving force for setting new standards.
The common denominator to my criteria is the lack of clarity around the use of LLM in the project. My main concern is actually not the use of LLM. I have a lot of concerns about it. But much more importantly is lack of transparency about the issue. I don't want to use and support projects that avoid questions like "How do you use LLM to code and if you generate code with LLMs, how do you review it?"
