Whatever they say about "loving the Web", the Chrome team will choose Google's ad business over everything else, web standards, user agency, security, privacy, safety, interoperability, literally anything and everything else every single time.
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The weird paranoid uncle is the Tor Browser. Respectfully, I was Mozilla's engineering community manager for ten years. I know exactly what Librewolf and Waterfox are, I know exactly how they're made and I will never install either of them.
@mhoye @dzwiedziu I feel reservations too.
What are the other options?
I don't have a good feeling about my own ability (or resources) to yeet the bad features into the sun. -
@mhoye @dzwiedziu I feel reservations too.
What are the other options?
I don't have a good feeling about my own ability (or resources) to yeet the bad features into the sun. -
@mhoye Safari isn’t chromium-based, it’s WebKit
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The current state of the browser ecosystem is fundamentally:
- Google Chrome
- Microsoft Chrome
- Apple Chrome
- Crypto-Neofash Chrome
- Microsoft Proxy Chrome
- Norwegian Chrome
- Other Norwegian Chrome
- Overtly-Corporate-Sock-Puppet Chrome (many)
- Embedded-Corporate-Sock-Puppet Chrome (many,many)
- Serial-Numbers-Filed-Off Chrome, and- Firefox
So.
@mhoye Why is Safari “Apple Chrome?”
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Respectfully: I was Mozilla's engineering community manager for ten years. I know exactly what Librewolf is and how it's made and I will never install it.
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I mean, that's not entirely fair. There's also:
- Weird Paranoid Uncle Of Firefox, and
- Abandoned-On-A-Doorstep-At-Birth-But-Somehow-Surviving-And-Growing-Up-Fast-Cousin-Of Firefoxand a bunch of more seriously niche esoterica, but I think that covers it.
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The current state of the browser ecosystem is fundamentally:
- Google Chrome
- Microsoft Chrome
- Apple Chrome
- Crypto-Neofash Chrome
- Microsoft Proxy Chrome
- Norwegian Chrome
- Other Norwegian Chrome
- Overtly-Corporate-Sock-Puppet Chrome (many)
- Embedded-Corporate-Sock-Puppet Chrome (many,many)
- Serial-Numbers-Filed-Off Chrome, and- Firefox
So.
As much as I'd otherwise hop on the "get Firefox" bandwagon, their engine gets clobbered by most business saass platforms. Try using Firefox for more than 10 minutes with say Atlassian Confluence or Sharepoint and see how that goes -> I had to give up Firefox because we're an Atlassian shop. Yeah, a single page is 97MB (which is a lot of other unrelated wtf questions), but takes 25s to load? sigh.
True, Norwegian Chrome (Vivaldi) follows the manifestV3 uBlock drop, but at least they have their own (less functional) adblock built-in and on by default.
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Respectfully: I was Mozilla's engineering community manager for ten years. I know exactly what Librewolf is and how it's made and I will never install it.
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The current state of the browser ecosystem is fundamentally:
- Google Chrome
- Microsoft Chrome
- Apple Chrome
- Crypto-Neofash Chrome
- Microsoft Proxy Chrome
- Norwegian Chrome
- Other Norwegian Chrome
- Overtly-Corporate-Sock-Puppet Chrome (many)
- Embedded-Corporate-Sock-Puppet Chrome (many,many)
- Serial-Numbers-Filed-Off Chrome, and- Firefox
So.
@mhoye Safari is not chromium based.
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@jchaven I know, I get it, but we can't be asking people to buy new hardware and learn a new OS just so they can participate in the world safely.
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Whatever they say about "loving the Web", the Chrome team will choose Google's ad business over everything else, web standards, user agency, security, privacy, safety, interoperability, literally anything and everything else every single time.
What anyone on that team says they love or care about or want does not change anything they're going to do.
Get Firefox.
Yes, they're thrashing. Yes, the AI stuff is bullshit nobody wants.
Get Firefox, add uBlock Origin.
@mhoye I had a weird moment this morning when renewing my car registration. The Pennsylvania DMV kept telling me that I had to fill out the form that was just asking for my registration number, license plate, and a checkbox agreeing to terms. I double checked the info was correct, checked the box again, and resubmitted. Loop!
So I tried in Chromium and it worked. Not sure if it was uBlock, Privacy Badger, or just Firefox itself, but the DMV is doing something unfriendly.
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@dzwiedziu @mhoye size of organization, slower updates, the updater itself, release process, team opsec, ...
I tolerate a lot of friction to get a safer browser experience (Temporary containers = more clicking reject more often logging in, uMatrix = often adjusting permissions, ...).
I have yet to find a good way to timely disable the bad features in Firefox -
everyone knows how librewolf is made. the readme explains it quite well
https://codeberg.org/librewolf/source#librewolf-overview
CC: @hsza@social.tudbut.de @mhoye@cosocial.ca @folix@firefish.fedibikes.de
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@dzwiedziu @mhoye size of organization, slower updates, the updater itself, release process, team opsec, ...
I tolerate a lot of friction to get a safer browser experience (Temporary containers = more clicking reject more often logging in, uMatrix = often adjusting permissions, ...).
I have yet to find a good way to timely disable the bad features in Firefox@brnrd
I understand, and I see that the releases (last four) can be 1-2 days late.Yet are the other possibilities or something concrete (still understanding that the bar is and should be high).
OTOH reported myself Librewolf's site certificate expiry.
BTW: uBlock has a “medium” mode (still uMatrix had a nicer interface IMHO): https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode:-medium-mode
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Whatever they say about "loving the Web", the Chrome team will choose Google's ad business over everything else, web standards, user agency, security, privacy, safety, interoperability, literally anything and everything else every single time.
What anyone on that team says they love or care about or want does not change anything they're going to do.
Get Firefox.
Yes, they're thrashing. Yes, the AI stuff is bullshit nobody wants.
Get Firefox, add uBlock Origin.
@mhoye I use LibreWolf personally, and it's great. "mozilla is trashing" undersells their turn to evil.
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Whatever they say about "loving the Web", the Chrome team will choose Google's ad business over everything else, web standards, user agency, security, privacy, safety, interoperability, literally anything and everything else every single time.
What anyone on that team says they love or care about or want does not change anything they're going to do.
Get Firefox.
Yes, they're thrashing. Yes, the AI stuff is bullshit nobody wants.
Get Firefox, add uBlock Origin.
@mhoye Niche esoterica could be less niche and esoteric
@brnrd @dzwiedziu
And yes, I think Konform Browser significantly improving on some reservations you alluded to with other family members for those with more discerning nose ;^^ -
Whatever they say about "loving the Web", the Chrome team will choose Google's ad business over everything else, web standards, user agency, security, privacy, safety, interoperability, literally anything and everything else every single time.
What anyone on that team says they love or care about or want does not change anything they're going to do.
Get Firefox.
Yes, they're thrashing. Yes, the AI stuff is bullshit nobody wants.
Get Firefox, add uBlock Origin.
@mhoye There's merit to supporting Mullvad Browser and the Tor network, while Zen Browser may be doing the best from the Firefox stages of failure.
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As much as I'd otherwise hop on the "get Firefox" bandwagon, their engine gets clobbered by most business saass platforms. Try using Firefox for more than 10 minutes with say Atlassian Confluence or Sharepoint and see how that goes -> I had to give up Firefox because we're an Atlassian shop. Yeah, a single page is 97MB (which is a lot of other unrelated wtf questions), but takes 25s to load? sigh.
True, Norwegian Chrome (Vivaldi) follows the manifestV3 uBlock drop, but at least they have their own (less functional) adblock built-in and on by default.
@tezoatlipoca @mhoye I use Confluence in Firefox for work and have had only minor issues over the last 5ish years. The minor issue was with the old editor, but the new one works just fine.
