Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
-
@dansup That is indeed what you expect. I have never tested it, as in, had no need to block anyone yet. Yes you would think a block should remove all replies made by that person to your posts.
@alterelefant @dansup No, this is no expected, a block has always only prevented you from reading what people write on all platforms, only bans remove their posts (or direct moderator action to remove posts).
A user should not be able to do such destructive actions to the global conversation on platforms run by other people, only on platforms were thet have such permissions (and with that some legal association with the platform operator) themselves.
-
Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
@dansup Agreed. Pretty much every platform that I am on supports this, including most FOSS platforms. It is a widely support basic moderation tool.
Every time it comes up, you'll get replies worrying about the theoretical risks, but Mastodon is like.. the only place that doesn't do this.
In my mind this is exactly like how Bluesky devs hem and haw about editing posts.
Everything allows for this, and those platforms are fine. We can just do it.
-
Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
Just an idea (maybe not a good one) - What if blocking someone flags all their responses to the post as "blocked by original poster" so everyone knows this person was blocked. If readers agree that the person was inappropriate, abusive, or just downright toxic they can block them too, and if enough people block them the account is suspended/dissolved.
-
@dansup Agreed. Pretty much every platform that I am on supports this, including most FOSS platforms. It is a widely support basic moderation tool.
Every time it comes up, you'll get replies worrying about the theoretical risks, but Mastodon is like.. the only place that doesn't do this.
In my mind this is exactly like how Bluesky devs hem and haw about editing posts.
Everything allows for this, and those platforms are fine. We can just do it.
@dansup It's particularly frustrating that so much of the conversation around the fediverse boils down to "but what about debate."
I use this platform as an artist. People/critters use this platform to talk to friends, to make new friends, to ask questions and get advice.
All of that stuff relies on being able to moderate our own threads, and it's not worth making all of that worse just because the critters on here specifically only to debate things might theoretically have a harder time.
-
@dansup It's particularly frustrating that so much of the conversation around the fediverse boils down to "but what about debate."
I use this platform as an artist. People/critters use this platform to talk to friends, to make new friends, to ask questions and get advice.
All of that stuff relies on being able to moderate our own threads, and it's not worth making all of that worse just because the critters on here specifically only to debate things might theoretically have a harder time.
@dansup the fediverse is so much BIGGER than just accounts going "debate me bro", and like.. we're making the space actively worse because a tiny subset of the users believe they have inalienable right to post comments on other critters blogs. It just doesn't make sense.
I moderate comments under my artwork to enforce content warnings for fetish art and to keep followers safe from seeing replies that might disturb them.
Most of the comments I remove on my galleries aren't bannable offenses.
-
@dansup the fediverse is so much BIGGER than just accounts going "debate me bro", and like.. we're making the space actively worse because a tiny subset of the users believe they have inalienable right to post comments on other critters blogs. It just doesn't make sense.
I moderate comments under my artwork to enforce content warnings for fetish art and to keep followers safe from seeing replies that might disturb them.
Most of the comments I remove on my galleries aren't bannable offenses.
@dansup so we've created a system on platforms like Mastodon that is considerably worse for artists, hobbyists, specialized accounts.. that removes a really important tool (one that I have access to on literally every single one of my other galleries)..
For a risk that is still pretty largely theoretical. Like, if you disagree with somepony and they block, write a blog post about it and share it in your own timeline like we used to do on the Internet.
-
Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
@dansup
LinkedIn was horrible for many reasons (I quit the platform more than a year ago).But there was at least one thing they did right: for threads/posts you started yourself, they let you delete comments from other users.
I haven't had a need for that here. It'd be a nice option to have, though.
-
Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
@dansup you cannot dictate others if they can talk or not, or whether they can say their opinion . If you do, I will fork the application accepting it, and remove the feature. So I can say what I think of your post.
Nice try, you fascist.
-
@dnkrupinski@hannover.town @alterelefant@mastodontech.de @dansup@mastodon.social it might be possible to at least purge the local copy, and prevent it from getting federated along with every other reply from the source.
Sure, anyone subscribed to the blocked person will still see the response and probably distribute it along, but it might be nice to have a way to block it at the top level.
@deadsuperhero @dansup @alterelefant
Don't understand how this can be done for _foreign messages_ which are not blocked on the same instance?
If i block someone on hannover.town, than all others on hannover.town should not be able to see the messages of the blocked account?
This is a blocked account on a instance. This can only be done by moderaters / owners of the instance. This needs a violation of the rules of the instance or an unpropriate behavior of the blocked account. Otherwise it would be censorship.
-
@dansup
A permalink is always final, the reply will still exist, just the reference to the original post should be removed.I am not quite sure how to enforce such a thing in a federated system? A bad actor instance could still choose to ignore the unlink request and show the cached post in relationship with the reply. In some extreme cases they might even make changes to the software on their end. Such bad actor instances are typically run by ultra right wing oriented people.
@dnkrupinski@alterelefant @dansup @dnkrupinski
Yes but a bad actor can also just edit their post to include a link to or screenshot of the original one.
Nothing will be a perfect solution but increasing friction that needs to be overcome to harass someone will reduce harassment since not everyone is equally dedicated to being a pain in the ass.
-
@Schafstelze @dansup indeed, this is insanely dangerous, all someone has to do to spread misinformation or even flat out libel without contest if you could remove replies is block anyone who disagrees with them. You have the right to choose what you see, but that shouldn't extend to choosing what other people see.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup what happens when someone replies to a post with libel, and you can't remove the reply?
Do you block that person, making it so you no longer can tell that they're libeling you under your own posts? That is also a really bad solution.
Do you report them? If so, why can you not also report the top level libel if they disable replies?
Also, is this widely happening on any of the social networks that allow for this already?
-
Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
@dansup No because this would be censorship
-
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup what happens when someone replies to a post with libel, and you can't remove the reply?
Do you block that person, making it so you no longer can tell that they're libeling you under your own posts? That is also a really bad solution.
Do you report them? If so, why can you not also report the top level libel if they disable replies?
Also, is this widely happening on any of the social networks that allow for this already?
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup I'm on furaffinity and I can remove replies. The platform is not flooded with libel.
I'm on Bluesky and can detatch replies. I'm not seeing huge upticks of libel.
I don't know of any platforms where mass libel has been the result of reply curation. It's just not a problem in practice because there are many different mechanisms to deal with this.
-
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup I'm on furaffinity and I can remove replies. The platform is not flooded with libel.
I'm on Bluesky and can detatch replies. I'm not seeing huge upticks of libel.
I don't know of any platforms where mass libel has been the result of reply curation. It's just not a problem in practice because there are many different mechanisms to deal with this.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup we had the same concerns pop up around post editing, and in practice it's just.. not really a big deal, it's not the giant abuse vector people are worried about.
The concerns are theoretical but the problems today with the existing behavior (including unblockable harassment, misinformation, and a degrading of public conversation) are real.
-
@Schafstelze @dansup indeed, this is insanely dangerous, all someone has to do to spread misinformation or even flat out libel without contest if you could remove replies is block anyone who disagrees with them. You have the right to choose what you see, but that shouldn't extend to choosing what other people see.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup That's like saying no one should be able to delete spam or harassment comments (or worse) from their blog posts, because someone, somewhere, might post BS and delete the comments that call them out on it.
-
Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
@dansup Agreed: this definitely falls under the category of "don't break users' expectations."
-
@dnkrupinski
Will those replies to your posts still be visible for others who view your posts?* your post *
* reply by blocked person "Yes, they will.
If you don't delete your posts and the blocked person don't delete his/her replies to your post, all posts will be visible to others.
From the Mastodon docs:
"Blocking hides a user from your view:
* If you were following the user you unfollow them
* You won’t see the user in your home feed
* You won’t see other people boosting the user
* You won’t see other people mentioning the user
* You won’t see the user in public timelines
* You won’t see notifications from that userAdditionally, on the blocked user’s side:
* The user is forced to unfollow you
* The user cannot follow you
* The user won’t see other people’s boosts of you
* The user won’t see you in public timelines
* If you and the blocked user are on the same server, the blocked user will not be able to view your posts on your profile while logged in." -
@dansup
A permalink is always final, the reply will still exist, just the reference to the original post should be removed.I am not quite sure how to enforce such a thing in a federated system? A bad actor instance could still choose to ignore the unlink request and show the cached post in relationship with the reply. In some extreme cases they might even make changes to the software on their end. Such bad actor instances are typically run by ultra right wing oriented people.
@dnkrupinskiThis is where moderation comes into play:
Moderators a able to block a single user for all users of his/her instance or a whole instance for all users.
https://docs.joinmastodon.org/admin/moderation/#server-wide-moderation -
@rimu @dansup Alternatively, imagine you post something innocuous and a bunch of people spam it with harassment, scams, or other abusive replies. Do you want the abuse to stay visible for everyone else after you block it? Or do you want to be able to disconnect it from your post's reply chain, so only people looking for those posts or accounts will see them?
Edit: assume for the sake of argument that you're not the admin on any of the instances, so you can't decide who gets defederated or suspended.
Which is the bigger problem? Someone being able to disconnect replies they disagree with, or someone not being able to detach actual abuse?
-
@alterelefant @dansup @dnkrupinski
Yes but a bad actor can also just edit their post to include a link to or screenshot of the original one.
Nothing will be a perfect solution but increasing friction that needs to be overcome to harass someone will reduce harassment since not everyone is equally dedicated to being a pain in the ass.
@gbargoud @alterelefant @dansup
If you are a bad actor you can just install a "shadow" account on a different instance with a similar instance name.
Then you can just post text "in the name of" the user who has blocked you.
There are always thins you can do as a bad actor in a system without central coordination ("decentral").
I don't understand which proposal could add an extra layer of "defence" here?
