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  3. I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

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  • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

    It was particularly disappointing to see Doctorow misconstrue (and thus, if he is believed) undermine the work that many of us are doing to shine a light on the ways in which the ideology of "AI" and the specific ways in which LLMs and other "AI" products are created do real harm.
    >>

    emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
    emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
    emilymbender@dair-community.social
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #4

    I also want to point out (again) the ways in which lumping together all uses of LMs (like the lumping of technologies into "AI") obscures the issues at hand.

    Language modeling is a useful component of many technologies that can be built without extractive, exploitative means. Take the automatic transcription built by and for the Māori people -- there's te reo Māori language model that's part of that.
    >>

    emilymbender@dair-community.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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    • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

      I also want to point out (again) the ways in which lumping together all uses of LMs (like the lumping of technologies into "AI") obscures the issues at hand.

      Language modeling is a useful component of many technologies that can be built without extractive, exploitative means. Take the automatic transcription built by and for the Māori people -- there's te reo Māori language model that's part of that.
      >>

      emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
      emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
      emilymbender@dair-community.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #5

      And the transformer architecture represented an important step forward in language modeling, that brought improvements to things like spell checking (Doctorow's use case).
      >>

      emilymbender@dair-community.socialE 2 Replies Last reply
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      • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

        And the transformer architecture represented an important step forward in language modeling, that brought improvements to things like spell checking (Doctorow's use case).
        >>

        emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
        emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
        emilymbender@dair-community.social
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #6

        What we argued in Stochastic Parrots, however, was that you can get those benefits of the transformer architecture without ammassing datasets too large to collect with care (meaning consentfully, intentionally, and with the ability to document what's in the data).
        >>

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        • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

          And the transformer architecture represented an important step forward in language modeling, that brought improvements to things like spell checking (Doctorow's use case).
          >>

          emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
          emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
          emilymbender@dair-community.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #7

          And you can build and use language models without turning them into the synthetic text extruding machines that are despoiling our information ecosystem.

          And even if those are easily accessible, because OpenAI et al want to burn through cash with their demos, we can still refute and refuse the narrative that synthetic text is somehow a panacea to be used across social services (medicine, education) and in science, etc.
          >>

          emilymbender@dair-community.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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          • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

            And you can build and use language models without turning them into the synthetic text extruding machines that are despoiling our information ecosystem.

            And even if those are easily accessible, because OpenAI et al want to burn through cash with their demos, we can still refute and refuse the narrative that synthetic text is somehow a panacea to be used across social services (medicine, education) and in science, etc.
            >>

            emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
            emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
            emilymbender@dair-community.social
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #8

            Doctorow could have gone into these details; could have said something about the particular LLM he chose was built (whose data, trained how, how much data, what kind of further data work in RLHF); could have drawn a distinction about use cases.
            >>

            emilymbender@dair-community.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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            • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

              Doctorow could have gone into these details; could have said something about the particular LLM he chose was built (whose data, trained how, how much data, what kind of further data work in RLHF); could have drawn a distinction about use cases.
              >>

              emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
              emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
              emilymbender@dair-community.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #9

              But instead he wrote a defensive screed, seemingly imagining someone knowing about his LLM use ascribing to him all of the ills of everyone's LLM production and use.

              A missed opportunity, to be sure.

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              • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                A few further comments, 🧵>>

                noodlemaz@mstdn.gamesN This user is from outside of this forum
                noodlemaz@mstdn.gamesN This user is from outside of this forum
                noodlemaz@mstdn.games
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #10

                @tante small typos if useful to know:
                "And that stand lead him into the problematic train of thought" (led)
                "Of just reap the fruits..." (or)

                And thank you for this piece!!

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                • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                  I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                  @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                  https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                  A few further comments, 🧵>>

                  staceycornelius@zeroes.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                  staceycornelius@zeroes.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                  staceycornelius@zeroes.ca
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #11

                  @emilymbender Thank you for this. I read the piece in Smashing Frames yesterday – very thoughtful, as is your response.

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                  • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                    I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                    @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                    https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                    A few further comments, 🧵>>

                    namnatulco@sueden.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                    namnatulco@sueden.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                    namnatulco@sueden.social
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #12

                    @emilymbender @tante
                    FYI, there was also a follow-up that I found equally worth reading:
                    https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/on-alliances/

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                    • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                      I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                      @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                      https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                      A few further comments, 🧵>>

                      funbreaker@pleroma.envs.netF This user is from outside of this forum
                      funbreaker@pleroma.envs.netF This user is from outside of this forum
                      funbreaker@pleroma.envs.net
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #13
                      @emilymbender @tante Enshittification Man himself getting enshittified? Is nothing in this world sacred?
                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                        I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                        @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                        https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                        A few further comments, 🧵>>

                        sstrader@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                        sstrader@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                        sstrader@masto.ai
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #14

                        @emilymbender @tante Thank you so much. Yours is the ethical reading of LLMs that is needed. (1) Moral beliefs lead to choices that are not black-and-white. (2) Tools are not immoral because of their creators. (3) The decision to use knowledge immorally obtained should weigh heavily on the user. (4) Tools whose use produces immoral outcomes should also weigh heavily on the user.

                        It's unfortunate that Doctorow went all-in on logical fallacies and presumed absolutes in order to defend his use.

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                        • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                          I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                          @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                          https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                          A few further comments, 🧵>>

                          M This user is from outside of this forum
                          M This user is from outside of this forum
                          mhtt@mastodon.social
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #15

                          @emilymbender @tante

                          Ive found some solace in combining Kant's universal categorical imperative with ethical hedonism.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • jwcph@helvede.netJ jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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