For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose.
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@josephsimons @codemonkeymike They are both Linux Distro's one with other specs than the other about minimal RAM and CPU requirements as Disc capacity. So I do not get your point here, is the one more requiring than the other > can you add RAM? > why you run both?
@zer0unplanned @codemonkeymike Oh, just that I had been running #Ubuntu on them, but it seemed like the OS was getting finicky, started up slowly (even after a fresh install). When I put #Mint on, these problems disappeared. I know Mint uses an older Ubuntu base, but somehow the Mint developers have made it run faster and more smoothly than Ubuntu. (I have run Ubuntu also on other old machines since 2006. And I have run dual boot machines, but it isn't worth the hassle.)
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org Linux with Windows serving as a Microkernel (WSL2) > Mac running BSD.
I like Linux but it sometimes trashes itself on updates - requiring backups of all my work to prevent dataloss. Running it on Windows means I can cross-mount and it trivializes the process of running Linux, which runs kernel-less. -
@codemonkeymike Exactly this! I have 6 old laptops converted to Linux Mint right now sitting here waiting to go to a local organisation that helps young single mums with no resources of their own.
Not only is Linux helping prevent e-waste, it's providing secure, powerful and free access to the digital world to people who otherwise would not have any (except maybe a crappy phone).@98Percent @codemonkeymike well done Pete
#linux #retrocomputing -
@codemonkeymike ... unless it has a shitty wifi chip... or an unsupported sound chip... then good luck :p. It's a paperweight at that point, unless you run an ancient OS.
@Elizafox @codemonkeymike I've been installing Linux on laptops since about 1998. I do this a LOT. I've installed it on about 15 laptops in the past year, of varying age, manufacturer and price bracket. There's only things I've had trouble with are fingerprint readers, and an old Acer netbook which might have had a hardware problem. Yes, in the old days, this was a problem, but these days Linux supports old hardware far better than windows. It really isn't much of a problem any more.
Another point rarely discussed is that installing windows is SO MUCH HARDER and takes FAR longer. I can get Linux mint installed on a laptop with an old spinning rust disk in about half an hour, and from first login you have a fully functional office suite, web browser, media player, and loads of applications installable with just a few clicks. With windows, it takes hours to get to this point even when automated with ms intune.
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@lpryszcz In my opinion a battery upgrade for a Pentium III isn't not worth it (if it's not for sentimental reasons): the performance/power consumption ration, important for mobile use, of cheap Core i5 machines is a lot better (not to mention the need to use 64bit binaries).
@JigmeDatse @codemonkeymike@tg9541@mas.to @codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org @lpryszcz@genomic.social Very good point. Yes, probably couldn't put most distributions on the Pentium III. The cost of replacing the battery may be more than a low cost laptop, especially if you're willing to look at the used market. Where you may be able to get a good processor, in a solid machine. Mostly the laptop isn't in use, as I've not had a reason to need a portable machine.
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@codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org Linux with Windows serving as a Microkernel (WSL2) > Mac running BSD.
I like Linux but it sometimes trashes itself on updates - requiring backups of all my work to prevent dataloss. Running it on Windows means I can cross-mount and it trivializes the process of running Linux, which runs kernel-less.@nom weird. Windows and Mac tend to trash themselves on updates for me. Linux has easily been the most stable tech in my life. What distro were you running?
Either way. Use what works for you.
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@codemonkeymike I agree with the sentiment, but have to say I find it somewhat dismaying that the open source OS landscape is a de facto monoculture. FreeBSD and OpenBSD exist, for example, and may work in places where Linux feels awkward (or vice versa).
One can't help but feel that the dominance of Linux has closed off interesting avenues of development. That's not Linux's fault, exactly, but it is a kind of unfortunate outcome.
@cross but Linux is so diverse. It's hard for me to know what else one might want from an ecosystem.
I've still never played with bsd though
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike one of the guys at our local meetups gets donated computers and put linux on them. Then gives them away to people without computers.
Hes a good egg. -
@codemonkeymike one of the guys at our local meetups gets donated computers and put linux on them. Then gives them away to people without computers.
Hes a good egg.@michael that's a great egg. My kinda guy
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@nom weird. Windows and Mac tend to trash themselves on updates for me. Linux has easily been the most stable tech in my life. What distro were you running?
Either way. Use what works for you.
@codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org I run Ubuntu stable releases. I do run on homebuilt systems but the sturdiest seems to be WSL2 on Win11.
Also nice is that Windows recognizes the driver support for server drive hardware on newer motherboards... so I can run super cheap large drives.
I plugged one of those in years ago, wondered why the hell it worked then looked up the specs of the SOC on the motherboard and found it had the minimum amount of hardware support necessary on SATA for server drives. Am really happy w/ that system.
Meanwhile, my 2013 Mac is kinda my client OS for accessing other things. It's good but I wish Avie Tevanian and the NeXT guys would come back and finish MacOS properly. -
@tg9541@mas.to @codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org @lpryszcz@genomic.social Very good point. Yes, probably couldn't put most distributions on the Pentium III. The cost of replacing the battery may be more than a low cost laptop, especially if you're willing to look at the used market. Where you may be able to get a good processor, in a solid machine. Mostly the laptop isn't in use, as I've not had a reason to need a portable machine.
@JigmeDatse I own an Atom N280 "netbook" which runs the last viable Debian distribution, soon likely without an up-to-date web browser. Battery life is still good after 15 years, but unlike in its prime it's only fast enough for console applications these days. I still keep it around because it served me well in the years where I used to be a "traveling engineer". Back then mobile Internet was expensive and I ran a "DNS tunnel"; good enough for a shell.
#nostalgia -
@JigmeDatse I own an Atom N280 "netbook" which runs the last viable Debian distribution, soon likely without an up-to-date web browser. Battery life is still good after 15 years, but unlike in its prime it's only fast enough for console applications these days. I still keep it around because it served me well in the years where I used to be a "traveling engineer". Back then mobile Internet was expensive and I ran a "DNS tunnel"; good enough for a shell.
#nostalgia@tg9541@mas.to @codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org @lpryszcz@genomic.social Yeah, I should realise that a 26 year old laptop, being vaguely usable is really not an expected thing... Dang, this thing is oldeeeee
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@tg9541@mas.to @codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org @lpryszcz@genomic.social Yeah, I should realise that a 26 year old laptop, being vaguely usable is really not an expected thing... Dang, this thing is oldeeeee
@JigmeDatse A Pentium III laptop that still works is quite remarkable. When I tried to open the display lid of an old Olivetti laptop (with 128 MB RAM I believe) which I had kept in the basement for as long as I own the netbook, 15 years, it simply broke off. I didn't use much force; Olivetti must have used PVC instead of more durable plastics. Once the plasticizer are away such an item is trash. The design was nice, though.
@codemonkeymike @lpryszcz -
@JigmeDatse A Pentium III laptop that still works is quite remarkable. When I tried to open the display lid of an old Olivetti laptop (with 128 MB RAM I believe) which I had kept in the basement for as long as I own the netbook, 15 years, it simply broke off. I didn't use much force; Olivetti must have used PVC instead of more durable plastics. Once the plasticizer are away such an item is trash. The design was nice, though.
@codemonkeymike @lpryszcz@tg9541@mas.to @codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org @lpryszcz@genomic.social This is a Toughbook. No real signs of mechanical failure. But I have to have a "massive" swap partition, like over 4 times the size of memory to run updates, and it's basically console, though I think I can run X on it, for the few things I might absolutely want some graphics display (though they'll be very slow and cumbersome).
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@tg9541@mas.to @codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org @lpryszcz@genomic.social This is a Toughbook. No real signs of mechanical failure. But I have to have a "massive" swap partition, like over 4 times the size of memory to run updates, and it's basically console, though I think I can run X on it, for the few things I might absolutely want some graphics display (though they'll be very slow and cumbersome).
@JigmeDatse I also once had a Panasonic Toughbook which served me well in countless workplace and prototype tasks. The downside of these laptops is non-standard hardware. These days, Freedos or a console BSD are the closest thing to a viable OS installation one can get. @codemonkeymike @lpryszcz
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@JigmeDatse I also once had a Panasonic Toughbook which served me well in countless workplace and prototype tasks. The downside of these laptops is non-standard hardware. These days, Freedos or a console BSD are the closest thing to a viable OS installation one can get. @codemonkeymike @lpryszcz
@tg9541@mas.to @codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org @lpryszcz@genomic.social Everything is supported, though the live CD didn't manage to handle the USB network adaptor, so ended up getting a PCMCIA one, until I updated the kernel. So, yeah, I know, not really supported. The drivers are in the kernel, but "no one would be using this old stuff on a new system," seems to be a real thing.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike @PapyrusBrigade
After installing a "hacked" Windows 11 on several older PCs that don't have TPM or UEFI, I have come to the conclusion that Microsoft made the conscious decision to consign the majority of PCs in regular people's homes to the trash. Apple has done the same thing with older iPads. -
For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike I saw this with a good explanation of this. Probably AI but it is accurate.
https://youtu.be/Vk2bXfAXYqU -
@thegardendude @codemonkeymike
If you are used to Windows, #ZorinOS is really easy to use (https://zorin.com/os/).
It won't necessarily work on all computers though (like all Linix distributions I guess) so make sure to test it by running it from a USB stick before installing it!@elduvelle @thegardendude @codemonkeymike So true!
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@purrperl @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @thegardendude @codemonkeymike
Have a look at #guix, maybe just help increase the number of packages and services available there... Scheme is a pretty easy to learn language and widely taught in CS education.
@dlakelan @thegardendude @codemonkeymike
Thanks for pointing out #GUIX
It looks very interesting!I have been a GNU/Emacs user for decades and somehow haven't learned LISP or Scheme yet. It's something Paul Graham recommends in his book, "Hackers and Painters", and it has been on my list of languages to learn for a while. Bumping up the priority.
