#Liberia was created in #Africa by the #USA in the 1800s
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nonvoters seem to fall into 4 categories, as i see it:
1. egotistical toxic idealism: "i don't get perfect so i can't be bothered"
2. moronic mindless cynicism: "BoTh SiDeS tHe SaMe"
3. ignorant alienated entitlement: "it doesn't affect me"
4. spineless learned helplessness: "yes they fight like crazy over my vote, but somehow i've convinced myself my vote doesn't matter"
those are the big 4 cowardly stupidities i think
@benroyce Possible No1 example: “I withheld my vote deciding to martyr my country allowing Darth Moron to trash us because Biden did not stand up against Israel excess in Gaza (even though he’s no longer on the ticket). And so fickle in my brilliance, I’ll let Netanyahu just finish them off, that’ll show them what an unstable genius I am!”
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@benroyce Possible No1 example: “I withheld my vote deciding to martyr my country allowing Darth Moron to trash us because Biden did not stand up against Israel excess in Gaza (even though he’s no longer on the ticket). And so fickle in my brilliance, I’ll let Netanyahu just finish them off, that’ll show them what an unstable genius I am!”
@Huntn00 @benroyce I mean, blame voters as much as you like, but managing be so incompetent, so unlikable, so without credibility, and dragged down by so much baggage that people took one look at you and thought I might as well risk it on the Big Orange Vulgar Evil? That's weakass weaksauce and the lesser evil should have been ashamed by how garbage tier its performance was.
aka
there's an intersection of blame here where the opposition meets the voter equally in terms of blame.
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@Huntn00 @benroyce I mean, blame voters as much as you like, but managing be so incompetent, so unlikable, so without credibility, and dragged down by so much baggage that people took one look at you and thought I might as well risk it on the Big Orange Vulgar Evil? That's weakass weaksauce and the lesser evil should have been ashamed by how garbage tier its performance was.
aka
there's an intersection of blame here where the opposition meets the voter equally in terms of blame.
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and what excuse do the 30% have? considering the stakes
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and what excuse do the 30% have? considering the stakes
@benroyce @Huntn00 They're bad people or people who don't care one way the other. I can't diagnose their mental illness.
I will disagree though. Democrats *are* a worthless center-right vile party of terrible people. But that's because many Americans are also worthless center-right terrible people (and that's not counting the far right lunatic fringe).
It makes sense they would try to appeal to their base.
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@benroyce @Huntn00 They're bad people or people who don't care one way the other. I can't diagnose their mental illness.
I will disagree though. Democrats *are* a worthless center-right vile party of terrible people. But that's because many Americans are also worthless center-right terrible people (and that's not counting the far right lunatic fringe).
It makes sense they would try to appeal to their base.
the way forward is to make over the democratic party
not voting doesn't work
third party in our stupid FPTP system just divides the left
(or the right, go Elon!
)so we have to show the fuck up in the primaries
get 50 AOCs
then show the fuck up in the general
"democrats bad" doesn't mean anything
it's not a monolithic omnipotent force of aliens
it's just politicians hewing to whoever shows the fuck up
so make them over in our image
when we vote, they are us
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the way forward is to make over the democratic party
not voting doesn't work
third party in our stupid FPTP system just divides the left
(or the right, go Elon!
)so we have to show the fuck up in the primaries
get 50 AOCs
then show the fuck up in the general
"democrats bad" doesn't mean anything
it's not a monolithic omnipotent force of aliens
it's just politicians hewing to whoever shows the fuck up
so make them over in our image
when we vote, they are us
@benroyce @PatrickoftheG @Huntn00 this part touches on the piece I think many miss
What is the "Democratic party"?
It's a ship of Theseus that sails in whatever direction is set by its current captain and crew.
We could be those people. It would take a few cycles. But it's very possible.
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@benroyce @PatrickoftheG @Huntn00 this part touches on the piece I think many miss
What is the "Democratic party"?
It's a ship of Theseus that sails in whatever direction is set by its current captain and crew.
We could be those people. It would take a few cycles. But it's very possible.
@mrcompletely @PatrickoftheG @Huntn00
"i don't vote because the democrats suck"
no
the #democrats suck, because you do not #vote
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@mrcompletely @PatrickoftheG @Huntn00
"i don't vote because the democrats suck"
no
the #democrats suck, because you do not #vote
@benroyce @mrcompletely @PatrickoftheG @Huntn00
Interesting discussion.. In a two-party system like the US, how can you realign the Democrat party towards more left-leaning values?Do they have primaries where the party members could vote for their candidate, and if it was, say, AOC or Bernie Sanders who got the most votes then their values would become the party's values?
But, if there is no such vote (which I think might be the case) then... how?? @benroyce do you mean people who care should become politicians themselves? Few people would be willing to do this -
@benroyce @mrcompletely @PatrickoftheG @Huntn00
Interesting discussion.. In a two-party system like the US, how can you realign the Democrat party towards more left-leaning values?Do they have primaries where the party members could vote for their candidate, and if it was, say, AOC or Bernie Sanders who got the most votes then their values would become the party's values?
But, if there is no such vote (which I think might be the case) then... how?? @benroyce do you mean people who care should become politicians themselves? Few people would be willing to do this@elduvelle @mrcompletely @PatrickoftheG @Huntn00
what you mention as a potential problem is exactly the problem
to fix the #democrats, to fix the #usa, people need to show the fuck up
in #primaries, in the general, as #candidates themselves
but the current rottenness just turns people off
so they don't show up
so things get even worse
rinse, repeat ad nauseum
we're the only ones who can fix this
and we have to show the fuck up and #vote to do it
it's the only way
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@elduvelle @mrcompletely @PatrickoftheG @Huntn00
what you mention as a potential problem is exactly the problem
to fix the #democrats, to fix the #usa, people need to show the fuck up
in #primaries, in the general, as #candidates themselves
but the current rottenness just turns people off
so they don't show up
so things get even worse
rinse, repeat ad nauseum
we're the only ones who can fix this
and we have to show the fuck up and #vote to do it
it's the only way
@benroyce
"people need to show the fuck up"Yah, that is the big moving part here
Still way too many people think "meh, both sides" even when one side is constructing concentration camps, disappearing people, and promising they are only just starting, and the other side will dither a bit over healthcare or foreign policy
Way too many think this is a fucking dating app
Way too many think the politician must "appeal" to them
Purity vs outcomes -
@benroyce
"people need to show the fuck up"Yah, that is the big moving part here
Still way too many people think "meh, both sides" even when one side is constructing concentration camps, disappearing people, and promising they are only just starting, and the other side will dither a bit over healthcare or foreign policy
Way too many think this is a fucking dating app
Way too many think the politician must "appeal" to them
Purity vs outcomes@mloxton @benroyce @elduvelle @mrcompletely @PatrickoftheG Appeal is a must, pragmatism and intelligence ‘trumps’ all, especially when option A: Mostly competent but old geezer/replaced by younger bright humane ethnic woman, vs B: Gozer The Destructor. 1/2
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@mloxton @benroyce @elduvelle @mrcompletely @PatrickoftheG Appeal is a must, pragmatism and intelligence ‘trumps’ all, especially when option A: Mostly competent but old geezer/replaced by younger bright humane ethnic woman, vs B: Gozer The Destructor. 1/2
Yah, and I am STILL seeing the purists who try to argue that since the Ethnic Woman wasn't perfect, they were just going to walk away and let Gozer take the day. Still now, after all the things we warned about have happened, and all the things they said they cared about are worse, they STILL think the alternative to Gozer must be a perfect fit to their purity test
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Yah, and I am STILL seeing the purists who try to argue that since the Ethnic Woman wasn't perfect, they were just going to walk away and let Gozer take the day. Still now, after all the things we warned about have happened, and all the things they said they cared about are worse, they STILL think the alternative to Gozer must be a perfect fit to their purity test
@mloxton @Huntn00 @elduvelle @mrcompletely @PatrickoftheG
if the democrats had gone to great effort to meet the demands of the toxic idealists, the toxic idealists would pick some new demand to "justify" their nonvote
there is no use chasing them
they don't have a coherent agenda. their concern is inventing excuses to not participate and feel superior for that. their only real goal: smug self-regard
they aren't even real leftists. the left is about policy, action. not self-congratulation
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