Almost all the servers on Mastodon and the wider Fediverse are run by unpaid grassroots volunteers that pay their server's bills out of their own pockets.
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@FediTips Maybe. But what if not? What if we have reached the limits without structural changes?
The Fediverse exist, it's a nice place. It doesn't need to grow to ensure it's existence. That's not my point.
I think society has a problem rooted in the marketing platforms some call "social media" and I think Fediverse is the best solution to this problem. But transferring the reasons why so many still use this platforms to Fedi, would perhaps need more possibilities to make money.
"Maybe. But what if not? What if we have reached the limits without structural changes?"
I've been through so many waves on here and this sentiment gets repeated every time a wave dies down, and every time it's forgotten when a new bigger wave happens.
Look at this article from 2017 on "six reasons why Mastodon won't survive":
https://mashable.com/article/mastodon-wont-survive
Mastodon now is far larger and more active than it was in 2017, but it's grown gradually so the media doesn't cover it as growing.
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"Maybe. But what if not? What if we have reached the limits without structural changes?"
I've been through so many waves on here and this sentiment gets repeated every time a wave dies down, and every time it's forgotten when a new bigger wave happens.
Look at this article from 2017 on "six reasons why Mastodon won't survive":
https://mashable.com/article/mastodon-wont-survive
Mastodon now is far larger and more active than it was in 2017, but it's grown gradually so the media doesn't cover it as growing.
@FediTips I sure hope you're right and the social problems don't start to accelerate faster than we could catch up, because I really want to be wrong about this.
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@FediTips I sure hope you're right and the social problems don't start to accelerate faster than we could catch up, because I really want to be wrong about this.
Yeah, that's a fair point. Things are getting really bad in the world
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Almost all the servers on Mastodon and the wider Fediverse are run by unpaid grassroots volunteers that pay their server's bills out of their own pockets.
They don't sell your data or carry advertising, and they don't get any share of the donations given to the Mastodon etc software developers.
Please consider donating to your server admin, they usually have donation links on your server website's "About" page. You can also ask your admin directly about how to donate.
@FediTips Unspoken addition: ISPs want you to pay double for the privelage of being allowed to self host.
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@FediTips Unspoken addition: ISPs want you to pay double for the privelage of being allowed to self host.
For hosting at home? Yeah, some ISPs aren't good about this. There perhaps ought to be specific regulations to protect the right to host at home?
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Almost all the servers on Mastodon and the wider Fediverse are run by unpaid grassroots volunteers that pay their server's bills out of their own pockets.
They don't sell your data or carry advertising, and they don't get any share of the donations given to the Mastodon etc software developers.
Please consider donating to your server admin, they usually have donation links on your server website's "About" page. You can also ask your admin directly about how to donate.
> They don't sell your data...
Is this guaranteed though? Anyone can grab this data and, for example, use it to train a model, no?
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> They don't sell your data...
Is this guaranteed though? Anyone can grab this data and, for example, use it to train a model, no?
Which data do you mean?
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Which data do you mean?
@FediTips This
All threads. -
@FediTips This
All threads.How would an instance admin sell a public thread?
Surely LLMs etc will just slurp it without asking permission?
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How would an instance admin sell a public thread?
Surely LLMs etc will just slurp it without asking permission?
@FediTips Yes, good point. Monetization of any kind isn't done by anyone hosting.
Thanks. I tend to think worst case in this age of surveillance economy.
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"requires something more than a few core devs and a lot of hobbyists."
I'm not clear on what you're suggesting should happen instead?
Devs and admins are doing an amazing job with the resources they are given.
It's easy to point out problems but the corporate alternatives rely on VC money and cause "enshittification", which negates the entire point of alternative social networks.
It's great to see co-ops and more managed hosting, but how does that help fund instances?
@FediTips @FranceskaMann The post I was replying to seemed to me to be suggesting that there were no real problems to be addressed. My post was describing why I think there are significant problems to be addressed. I wasn't claiming to have the correct solutions. I suspect that various experiments will need to be tried to find good solutions, and it will likely require a mix of approaches to cover all types of users and use cases.
To address the specific examples I gave, I think managed hosting is useful to professionalize the hosting portion of the equation and make the full costs explicit; even if that still leaves the puzzle of how to fund it. Things like CoSocial are even more encouraging, as they explicitly require payment for membership (while creating a mechanism for gift memberships to support those who can't pay), rather than relying on users to spontaneously donate to cover unknown costs. And by involving users in governance, it may make people more invested, help them understand the challenges of running the server, and help guide the instance toward solutions that work for users.
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@FediTips @FranceskaMann The post I was replying to seemed to me to be suggesting that there were no real problems to be addressed. My post was describing why I think there are significant problems to be addressed. I wasn't claiming to have the correct solutions. I suspect that various experiments will need to be tried to find good solutions, and it will likely require a mix of approaches to cover all types of users and use cases.
To address the specific examples I gave, I think managed hosting is useful to professionalize the hosting portion of the equation and make the full costs explicit; even if that still leaves the puzzle of how to fund it. Things like CoSocial are even more encouraging, as they explicitly require payment for membership (while creating a mechanism for gift memberships to support those who can't pay), rather than relying on users to spontaneously donate to cover unknown costs. And by involving users in governance, it may make people more invested, help them understand the challenges of running the server, and help guide the instance toward solutions that work for users.
Dette indlæg er slettet! -
How would an instance admin sell a public thread?
Surely LLMs etc will just slurp it without asking permission?
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The "training" data (i.e. stolen data) for LLMs is usually slurped without permission or compensation, they pirate stuff and get away with it:
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It depends on what is meant by sustainable and long scale. There are many instances that have been operating since 2017 (Mastodon only began in 2016) or similar.
There have been many commercial social networks which have come and gone in that time such as Post News and Hive, which were run by professionals. The commercial networks couldn't make enough money to please investors so they shut down. Whereas the non-professional Fedi just carried on as it didn't need to please investors.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services @feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place there are instances older than mastodon
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@FediTips Yes, good point. Monetization of any kind isn't done by anyone hosting.
Thanks. I tend to think worst case in this age of surveillance economy.
It's totally fair to ask about risk of data sales, and a reasonable attitude
As far as I know it hasn't happened, but of course there's always a risk online.
One thing that's really good about the Fedi is it doesn't ask for more personal data than it needs, there's no requirement for a phone number or real name or personal photo etc.
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@FediTips@social.growyourown.services @feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place there are instances older than mastodon
@tauon @FediTips and there will be instances as long as at least one person is willing to host them.
But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so.
Fediverse will not die without more possibilities to secure a revenue. But without it, I highly doubt it will get big enough for the change in society it could provide.
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org do you fucking think i didn't
