The #vegetarian and #vegan choices in the supermarket are so much more elaborate than ever before.
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Thanks for sharing your point of view and for elaborating it! I know the dairy and the meat industry is horrible!
I think that the 'vegetarian' label is still a good thing, because it takes time to get a big amount of people to try other foods that they have not tried before. For a lot of people quitting meat is a big leap, and many still think vegan food is boring (whatever reason) or the concept seems too far away for them. A vegetarian alternative might make someone give it a try.
I started as a vegetarian myself and have been so for more than a decade, because it felt right at the time, and it was a too big jump for me to fully go vegan. I think everyone has to find their own path they want to take on to align their food choices with their values.
To come back to this picture: my goal with this page is to inspire
others to try some more plant-based or vegetarian ideas while I keep discovering ideas myself. Even a partially vegan diet has already an impact: any reduction in the consumption of animal products is a step in the right direction, and we should encourage people for taking those steps, instead of discouraging for not doing enough.@Veggie @snarkweek
> any reduction in the consumption of animal products is a step in the right direction, and we should encourage people for taking those steps, instead of discouraging for not doing enough.yes, it is good to encourage people to eat less animal produts, which is my issue with you sharing photo of an animal product burger: sharing photos of animal products encourages people to eat animal products.
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I understand what you mean, but I think we are talking from different perspectives. This page is not meant to feature only vegan dishes, it also includes vegetarian ones (hence the name of the page 'Veggie'). As confirmed in my previous reply to your question, this *is* a vegetarian burger, and it's also described in the original post as such. I’ll be more careful with the tags in the future so posts like this don’t appear in the vegan search results.
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I understand what you mean, but I think we are talking from different perspectives. This page is not meant to feature only vegan dishes, it also includes vegetarian ones (hence the name of the page 'Veggie'). As confirmed in my previous reply to your question, this *is* a vegetarian burger, and it's also described in the original post as such. I’ll be more careful with the tags in the future so posts like this don’t appear in the vegan search results.
@Veggie
thanks for being more careful with the #vegan tag.
i am aware that i have a minority opinion here, but i think it's really weird to call animal products "veggie".
because a cow is not a vegetable, you know.
in my eyes, calling breast milk from cows "veggie" is greenwashing of a production that involves rape ("artificial insemination"), kidnapping of children (so we can drink their milk instead, and murder. 🩸
i was on an animal abusing "vegetarian" diet for a long time, because i didn't know better, because no one told me.
i wish someone had told me earlier. so now i am telling you.
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@Veggie @pelle vegetarian is increasing the amount of torture. Dairy is a lot more cruel than 'only' killing for meat. They get killed anyway, vegetarian Just refuse to eat the flesh. Amd many studies show that reducing meat increases the use of dairy & eggs.
So vegetarian is just omni for concious, like if close my eyes, you don't see me. If I don't see corpses they don't exist.
But they do. Every egg is a dead chick, every cheese a dead calf, every yoghurt a dead cow.
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Thanks for sharing your experience and I appreciate you raising awareness. I see how strongly you feel about animal welfare. Minority opinion or not, your opinion matters.
I feel we are mostly debating the meaning of 'vegetarian' (veggie). Unless the definition is different in your country, I am using it in the meaning that is widely accepted for something without meat or fish. A product without any animal by-products would be vegan.
The initially incorrect tags we've covered in the previous comments and have been corrected.
The definition of 'veggie' might maybe not align with your point of view or feel inaccurate, but that's a different topic, one of semantics, and not really the focus of this page.
I do agree that a vegan diet is the more ethical way to go, but my personal opinion remains that I don't believe guilt-tripping people is the way to enforce change. -
Thanks for sharing your experience and I appreciate you raising awareness. I see how strongly you feel about animal welfare. Minority opinion or not, your opinion matters.
I feel we are mostly debating the meaning of 'vegetarian' (veggie). Unless the definition is different in your country, I am using it in the meaning that is widely accepted for something without meat or fish. A product without any animal by-products would be vegan.
The initially incorrect tags we've covered in the previous comments and have been corrected.
The definition of 'veggie' might maybe not align with your point of view or feel inaccurate, but that's a different topic, one of semantics, and not really the focus of this page.
I do agree that a vegan diet is the more ethical way to go, but my personal opinion remains that I don't believe guilt-tripping people is the way to enforce change.> but my personal opinion remains that I don't believe guilt-tripping people is the way to enforce change.
well, then the obvious follow up question is: how much is that opinion of yours worth if it can't even convince yourself to change?
i have heard this opinion from others, too: that promoting animal products reduces consumption of animal products.
my guess what they really mean is: "animal rights advocates should shut up, because i feel ashamed when they remind me that i actively choose animal abuse."
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@Veggie @pelle vegetarian is increasing the amount of torture. Dairy is a lot more cruel than 'only' killing for meat. They get killed anyway, vegetarian Just refuse to eat the flesh. Amd many studies show that reducing meat increases the use of dairy & eggs.
So vegetarian is just omni for concious, like if close my eyes, you don't see me. If I don't see corpses they don't exist.
But they do. Every egg is a dead chick, every cheese a dead calf, every yoghurt a dead cow.
@Seitansbraten @Veggie @pelle vegetarian at work, vegan at home here: I get your point that the cow’s gonna get slaughtered anyway and the calf’s not too happy about the deal either. But don’t we get a lot more food out of one milk cow than having the animals just for eating? I am aware that I’m only quibbling about the amount of torture, but I live in French cultural circles, the idea of just having a bit of beans or tofu hasn’t arrived in the industrial zone restaurants yet.
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@Seitansbraten @Veggie @pelle vegetarian at work, vegan at home here: I get your point that the cow’s gonna get slaughtered anyway and the calf’s not too happy about the deal either. But don’t we get a lot more food out of one milk cow than having the animals just for eating? I am aware that I’m only quibbling about the amount of torture, but I live in French cultural circles, the idea of just having a bit of beans or tofu hasn’t arrived in the industrial zone restaurants yet.
@Seitansbraten @Veggie @pelle all this to say: I *think* I’m choosing the lesser evil with a goat cheese salad than a steak, but maybe I should just give up?
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@Seitansbraten @Veggie @pelle all this to say: I *think* I’m choosing the lesser evil with a goat cheese salad than a steak, but maybe I should just give up?
@sebug yes, please give up the goat cheese and choose plants instead of harming animals.
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@Seitansbraten @Veggie @pelle vegetarian at work, vegan at home here: I get your point that the cow’s gonna get slaughtered anyway and the calf’s not too happy about the deal either. But don’t we get a lot more food out of one milk cow than having the animals just for eating? I am aware that I’m only quibbling about the amount of torture, but I live in French cultural circles, the idea of just having a bit of beans or tofu hasn’t arrived in the industrial zone restaurants yet.
yes, @sebug,
you are entirely correct: slave-owners can extract more value from their slaves if they also rape them, and then kidnap their children after birth, and finally take their breast milk.(cows, like humans and other mammals, produce milk to their children only after giving birth)
but you see the issue in that, right?
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I quit eating meat in 2005, which for me was a big change in eating habits (especially since I used to be really picky with food).
That change was my own choice, not because someone told me I was doing wrong. I believe people need to make that decision for themselves, step by step, at their own pace, with the right encouragement. It’s a learning process that takes courage and requires old habits to be pushed aside. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the process we’ve gone through ourselves and then be quick to judge others. Not everyone is ready to make a full shift completely, it can be gradual, and that’s perfectly okay.
I don’t think advocates should shut up, in fact, I said that your opinion matters too. I think I have been pretty reasonable in trying to understand your point of view, while also trying to explain mine to you, which is also valid.
I don’t see myself as promoting animal products, but rather offering alternative eating styles with vegetarian and mostly vegan options for people who are open to it and maybe just starting their journey. -
yes, @sebug,
you are entirely correct: slave-owners can extract more value from their slaves if they also rape them, and then kidnap their children after birth, and finally take their breast milk.(cows, like humans and other mammals, produce milk to their children only after giving birth)
but you see the issue in that, right?
@pelle I see that a lesser evil is still an evil. What I am interrogating is whether it is a lesser evil. Because animals are going to get hurt until everybody is on board, and going after the vegetarians seems like a waste of energy.
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@pelle I see that a lesser evil is still an evil. What I am interrogating is whether it is a lesser evil. Because animals are going to get hurt until everybody is on board, and going after the vegetarians seems like a waste of energy.
@sebug
many vegetarians have already made a conscious choice to try to reduce harm, so the talk about veganism is often more fruitful than talking with someone who has zero awareness or empathy.someone who maybe even laughs about animal abuse.
also, i don't quite see having that conversation as "going after" anyone. i think it is a friendly thing to do: to support each other doing less harm.
even if the initial reaction can be defensiveness.
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I quit eating meat in 2005, which for me was a big change in eating habits (especially since I used to be really picky with food).
That change was my own choice, not because someone told me I was doing wrong. I believe people need to make that decision for themselves, step by step, at their own pace, with the right encouragement. It’s a learning process that takes courage and requires old habits to be pushed aside. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the process we’ve gone through ourselves and then be quick to judge others. Not everyone is ready to make a full shift completely, it can be gradual, and that’s perfectly okay.
I don’t think advocates should shut up, in fact, I said that your opinion matters too. I think I have been pretty reasonable in trying to understand your point of view, while also trying to explain mine to you, which is also valid.
I don’t see myself as promoting animal products, but rather offering alternative eating styles with vegetarian and mostly vegan options for people who are open to it and maybe just starting their journey.@Veggie
your view is not valid at all:• you are harming animals by eating animal products,
• you are promoting animal abuse when you share photos of animal products on social media,
• you are greenwashing animal products by calling them "veggie",you should be ashamed of that. you can do better.
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It seems we have very different perspectives on this, and we’re going in circles.
If you believe that only your view is valid and mine is not worth considering simply because it’s different, then I think it’s best to end the conversation here.
Respect goes both ways, and I don’t feel you’re willing to see things from another point of view. Not everyone’s choices will align with yours, and the world is rarely black and white. -
It seems we have very different perspectives on this, and we’re going in circles.
If you believe that only your view is valid and mine is not worth considering simply because it’s different, then I think it’s best to end the conversation here.
Respect goes both ways, and I don’t feel you’re willing to see things from another point of view. Not everyone’s choices will align with yours, and the world is rarely black and white.@Veggie
yes, i am against rape, which is why i am sad when mothers are strapped in "rape racks" (which is an actual dairy industry term).are you for or against rape?
if you can't see the black-and-white of this issue, then you are moral relativist, you are nuance trolling, you are lost.
and your view is not valid, because condoning rape is a shitty view that does not deserve any respect.
