Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
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@GroupNebula563 most of the requests I get are from African countries.
@GroupNebula563 @randahl Genuinely confused by this response?
Do you perceive something different or otherwise objectionable with African countries? Could you explain more?
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Are you claiming that your use of the word "begging" in your original post was consistent with the precise legal definition that applies in your home jurisdiction? Feel free to answer either on the basis of the natural and ordinary meaning of domestic legislation, or on the basis of that meaning as modulated by the Strasbourg jurisprudence.
@only_ohm yes. In my home jurisdiction as in many others, begging is illegal as defined in the Danish penal code §197.
I was personally very sceptical when this law was updated in 2017, because obviously, this law will punish people we should rather help.
The law being from 1930, it does not yet define begging in relation to the use of the internet. But several modern day legal articles draw clear parallels between traditional begging in public spaces and digital begging using online fora.
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Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
Every week I see accounts asking for money, often tagging me or others directly.
I support recognized aid organisations, but these direct requests make me concerned, because as a Mastodon user I have no way of verifying if the requests are legitimate, or some nefarious person is pretending to be a person in need.
So my question is, should Mastodon servers have a policy about begging, and if so, what should the policy be?
@randahl@mastodon.social What a great thread for finding privileged white folx to block! I’d be curious to know how many people whining about “scams” also allow the oligarchs that run their governments to ravage them with taxes at the point of a gun while said billionaires scam the world. Get the fuck over your privilege, you’re never gonna be anything more than a wageslave.
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@randahl Hey Randahl,
It’s 2026, not Dickensian England; we call it mutual aid, not begging.
If we’re talking about Gazans, they are currently facing genocide at the hands of Israel with the full support of countries like the USA, Germany, and the UK and the complicity of almost the entirety of the so-called civilised West. International organisations like the UN are deliberately being prevented from functioning by Israel and US.
If you want a list of people we’ve verified via video calls that you can help during this ongoing genocide by settler colonialists, please see:
https://gaza-verified.org/donate/
I would strongly urge you to take the context into consideration. Ask yourself what you would do if you couldn’t feed your family, if you couldn’t afford to treat your sick children, if the institutions that were supposed to be helping were shackled, and if you were actively being hounded off of every other online space by corporations complicit in the genocide being perpetrated against you.
If people are being forced to ask for help, it’s not their failing but the failing of the system that is forcing them to do so.
@aral
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@randahl I agree that a policy is needed because I get the same thing and I suspect scams are part of this
So there definitely are scams: the ‘my mum in Gaza has diabetes’ was well known. I think tho the concept of ‘legitimate’ is deeply problematic in itself. Ie someone from W Africa asks for help but pretends to be from somewhere more currently in the news and in vogue. Is that really an issue? Well - I don’t want to give cash to someone with 100 staff running a scheme. But generally I don’t really care: ask for help? I’ll try to help.
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The messages that I've seen direct-messaging someone or replying to an un-related post were clearly spam.
If you start the 'report and block' process on a message, the software (on my server anyway) shows the account's other recent posts, and asks if they illustrate a pattern of spam. Usually all the account posts is begging messages, across every server it can reach.
If it's not a person you've known for some time, block and optionally report; assume they're scammers.
@randahl @Kathmandu @lydiaschoch the direct requests I get all appear to be people who really do need help- desperately. I help where I can and am grateful to be on this side of equation. The one or two I’ve seen that really aren’t what they claim are obviously so.
I’m sad to see the extensive use of the concept of ‘legitimacy’ on this thread - and the - sorry - callous attitudes articulated from positions of presumably deep privilege.
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@randahl in timeline post or DM?
DM = scam - they focus on specific account to land the gullible that will pay
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@randahl I agree. There are a lot of people asking for money. Few are verifiable. I would prefer to see these eliminated unless totally verifiable.
@Iveyline @randahl and how would a desperate and very poor person ‘verify’ themselves to a satisfactory standard?
I prefer to accept that very occasionally funds go to someone who I would not have given to were I aware of exactly who they are than risk being that privileged and hard hearted person who finds a reason not to help desperate people.
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@randahl your question and a lot of the answers make me shiver. Yes, there might be fakes. But most of them had to swallow their pride to come here and ask for help because they, worse, their children, are in dire need. Nobody forces you to give them anything. Showing up in your time line doesn't cost you a dime. So why do you want a 'policy'? To get them banned, as already some instances do? I only regret I can't help. It hurts bad enough.
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@Randahl Fink of course people and organisations can ask for money here in the fediverse. but if that's all they do i will stop following them and when they show up in other followers' comments will mute them.
this is a very good point:I support recognized aid organisations, but these direct requests make me concerned, because as a Mastodon user I have no way of verifying if the requests are legitimate, or some nefarious person is pretending to be a person in need.
so i mostly ignore such requests ...What’s ‘legitimate’ and how would you determine legitimacy?
If you were truly desperate, what would you do?
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What’s ‘legitimate’ and how would you determine legitimacy?
If you were truly desperate, what would you do?
@JimmyB (he/him) i don't know what "legitimate" should be in this respect. organisations and people known to me from other circumstances are believable. and as i said : everybody is free to ask, and i am free to decide .. -
@aral
Since we agree that context is important, allow me to share a bit about my context.As a political commentator, it is important for me to be precise; and in my context, terms like “begging” or “panhandling” are very precise legal terms which define a specific action that is illegal in some jurisdictions, while legal in others.
I respect that in your context, this term is not preferred because it may not express the empathy we both desire, but now you know my motivation for using it.
2/2@randahl Legal doesn’t mean moral or ethical. Slavery was legal. Calling it “begging” immediately conjures up negative associations. It is not a neutral term. If you’re truly an ally to Palestinians (and I have no reason to doubt that you are) please reflect on what impact calling for servers to implement rules against “begging” will have on the Gazans here who rely on donations to exist.
It was hard enough to find acceptance on the fediverse for our friends and families in Gaza and the last thing we need is further impediments to being able to help them.
For anyone reading this, if you want to reach out and offer mutual aid to people who are surviving genocide, please see https://gaza-verified.org/donate where you can help families directly via their fundraisers.
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@randahl Legal doesn’t mean moral or ethical. Slavery was legal. Calling it “begging” immediately conjures up negative associations. It is not a neutral term. If you’re truly an ally to Palestinians (and I have no reason to doubt that you are) please reflect on what impact calling for servers to implement rules against “begging” will have on the Gazans here who rely on donations to exist.
It was hard enough to find acceptance on the fediverse for our friends and families in Gaza and the last thing we need is further impediments to being able to help them.
For anyone reading this, if you want to reach out and offer mutual aid to people who are surviving genocide, please see https://gaza-verified.org/donate where you can help families directly via their fundraisers.
@randahl (And please, call me Aral, Mr. Balkan is my dad.)
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Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
Every week I see accounts asking for money, often tagging me or others directly.
I support recognized aid organisations, but these direct requests make me concerned, because as a Mastodon user I have no way of verifying if the requests are legitimate, or some nefarious person is pretending to be a person in need.
So my question is, should Mastodon servers have a policy about begging, and if so, what should the policy be?
@randahl
Thinking all aid should go through an aid org is not great. It casts undue doubt and judgement on people for asking for money directly.One of the most empowering things you can do is to see someone needing help and *just go help them*. You don't need official channels for that, you can make your own judgement.
And by the way yeah the word "begging" is pejorative.
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@JimmyB (he/him) i don't know what "legitimate" should be in this respect. organisations and people known to me from other circumstances are believable. and as i said : everybody is free to ask, and i am free to decide ..
@jabgoe2089 no one has suggested you’re not free to decide.
I’m just pointing out the immense privilege of being able to do so.
And personally I feel that comes with deep responsibility. So I try to be open and kind. This thread has been a hot mess of individualistic selfishness
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@randahl
Thinking all aid should go through an aid org is not great. It casts undue doubt and judgement on people for asking for money directly.One of the most empowering things you can do is to see someone needing help and *just go help them*. You don't need official channels for that, you can make your own judgement.
And by the way yeah the word "begging" is pejorative.
@randahl
"Only give to aid orgs" and "no begging allowed" - if fedi ever gets like that we might as well start investing in those horrible anti-homeless benches and stuff.. -
@JimmyB @GRA3432 my intention with this thread is certainly not to recommend anyone should be treated badly.
I am simply trying to figure out how we can all coexist in this complex world.
Sometimes I get tagged by accounts that send out many requests every day, tagging dozens of people. This means they are forcibly making phones go "ding!" in the pockets of dozens of people around the globe in the middle of the work day.
I am not convinced this is an optimal way to ensure help where needed.
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Assaf - as the things you have said are manifestly not true, and you spreading this lie will hurt some of the most vulnerable people in the world, my best guess is that you are a Zionist...
Hard to know - but your post would align perfectly with other zionist liars and murderers we've seen here.
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@jabgoe2089 no one has suggested you’re not free to decide.
I’m just pointing out the immense privilege of being able to do so.
And personally I feel that comes with deep responsibility. So I try to be open and kind. This thread has been a hot mess of individualistic selfishness
@JimmyB (he/him)no one has suggested you’re not free to decide.
I’m just pointing out the immense privilege of being able to do so.
but you do. you are trying to induce a guilty conscience in me by referring to some fictitious priviledge, that i could do nothing about if it existed.
so it will always be: i am to decide about my spending. and folks running up to me saying, gimme money i'm needful, or i'll say you're priviledged will not be on my receivers' list ..
