Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
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@randahl I agree. There are a lot of people asking for money. Few are verifiable. I would prefer to see these eliminated unless totally verifiable.
@Iveyline @randahl and how would a desperate and very poor person ‘verify’ themselves to a satisfactory standard?
I prefer to accept that very occasionally funds go to someone who I would not have given to were I aware of exactly who they are than risk being that privileged and hard hearted person who finds a reason not to help desperate people.
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@randahl your question and a lot of the answers make me shiver. Yes, there might be fakes. But most of them had to swallow their pride to come here and ask for help because they, worse, their children, are in dire need. Nobody forces you to give them anything. Showing up in your time line doesn't cost you a dime. So why do you want a 'policy'? To get them banned, as already some instances do? I only regret I can't help. It hurts bad enough.
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@Randahl Fink of course people and organisations can ask for money here in the fediverse. but if that's all they do i will stop following them and when they show up in other followers' comments will mute them.
this is a very good point:I support recognized aid organisations, but these direct requests make me concerned, because as a Mastodon user I have no way of verifying if the requests are legitimate, or some nefarious person is pretending to be a person in need.
so i mostly ignore such requests ...What’s ‘legitimate’ and how would you determine legitimacy?
If you were truly desperate, what would you do?
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What’s ‘legitimate’ and how would you determine legitimacy?
If you were truly desperate, what would you do?
@JimmyB (he/him) i don't know what "legitimate" should be in this respect. organisations and people known to me from other circumstances are believable. and as i said : everybody is free to ask, and i am free to decide .. -
@aral
Since we agree that context is important, allow me to share a bit about my context.As a political commentator, it is important for me to be precise; and in my context, terms like “begging” or “panhandling” are very precise legal terms which define a specific action that is illegal in some jurisdictions, while legal in others.
I respect that in your context, this term is not preferred because it may not express the empathy we both desire, but now you know my motivation for using it.
2/2@randahl Legal doesn’t mean moral or ethical. Slavery was legal. Calling it “begging” immediately conjures up negative associations. It is not a neutral term. If you’re truly an ally to Palestinians (and I have no reason to doubt that you are) please reflect on what impact calling for servers to implement rules against “begging” will have on the Gazans here who rely on donations to exist.
It was hard enough to find acceptance on the fediverse for our friends and families in Gaza and the last thing we need is further impediments to being able to help them.
For anyone reading this, if you want to reach out and offer mutual aid to people who are surviving genocide, please see https://gaza-verified.org/donate where you can help families directly via their fundraisers.
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@randahl Legal doesn’t mean moral or ethical. Slavery was legal. Calling it “begging” immediately conjures up negative associations. It is not a neutral term. If you’re truly an ally to Palestinians (and I have no reason to doubt that you are) please reflect on what impact calling for servers to implement rules against “begging” will have on the Gazans here who rely on donations to exist.
It was hard enough to find acceptance on the fediverse for our friends and families in Gaza and the last thing we need is further impediments to being able to help them.
For anyone reading this, if you want to reach out and offer mutual aid to people who are surviving genocide, please see https://gaza-verified.org/donate where you can help families directly via their fundraisers.
@randahl (And please, call me Aral, Mr. Balkan is my dad.)
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Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
Every week I see accounts asking for money, often tagging me or others directly.
I support recognized aid organisations, but these direct requests make me concerned, because as a Mastodon user I have no way of verifying if the requests are legitimate, or some nefarious person is pretending to be a person in need.
So my question is, should Mastodon servers have a policy about begging, and if so, what should the policy be?
@randahl
Thinking all aid should go through an aid org is not great. It casts undue doubt and judgement on people for asking for money directly.One of the most empowering things you can do is to see someone needing help and *just go help them*. You don't need official channels for that, you can make your own judgement.
And by the way yeah the word "begging" is pejorative.
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@JimmyB (he/him) i don't know what "legitimate" should be in this respect. organisations and people known to me from other circumstances are believable. and as i said : everybody is free to ask, and i am free to decide ..
@jabgoe2089 no one has suggested you’re not free to decide.
I’m just pointing out the immense privilege of being able to do so.
And personally I feel that comes with deep responsibility. So I try to be open and kind. This thread has been a hot mess of individualistic selfishness
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@randahl
Thinking all aid should go through an aid org is not great. It casts undue doubt and judgement on people for asking for money directly.One of the most empowering things you can do is to see someone needing help and *just go help them*. You don't need official channels for that, you can make your own judgement.
And by the way yeah the word "begging" is pejorative.
@randahl
"Only give to aid orgs" and "no begging allowed" - if fedi ever gets like that we might as well start investing in those horrible anti-homeless benches and stuff.. -
@JimmyB @GRA3432 my intention with this thread is certainly not to recommend anyone should be treated badly.
I am simply trying to figure out how we can all coexist in this complex world.
Sometimes I get tagged by accounts that send out many requests every day, tagging dozens of people. This means they are forcibly making phones go "ding!" in the pockets of dozens of people around the globe in the middle of the work day.
I am not convinced this is an optimal way to ensure help where needed.
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Assaf - as the things you have said are manifestly not true, and you spreading this lie will hurt some of the most vulnerable people in the world, my best guess is that you are a Zionist...
Hard to know - but your post would align perfectly with other zionist liars and murderers we've seen here.
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@jabgoe2089 no one has suggested you’re not free to decide.
I’m just pointing out the immense privilege of being able to do so.
And personally I feel that comes with deep responsibility. So I try to be open and kind. This thread has been a hot mess of individualistic selfishness
@JimmyB (he/him)no one has suggested you’re not free to decide.
I’m just pointing out the immense privilege of being able to do so.
but you do. you are trying to induce a guilty conscience in me by referring to some fictitious priviledge, that i could do nothing about if it existed.
so it will always be: i am to decide about my spending. and folks running up to me saying, gimme money i'm needful, or i'll say you're priviledged will not be on my receivers' list .. -
@randahl Legal doesn’t mean moral or ethical. Slavery was legal. Calling it “begging” immediately conjures up negative associations. It is not a neutral term. If you’re truly an ally to Palestinians (and I have no reason to doubt that you are) please reflect on what impact calling for servers to implement rules against “begging” will have on the Gazans here who rely on donations to exist.
It was hard enough to find acceptance on the fediverse for our friends and families in Gaza and the last thing we need is further impediments to being able to help them.
For anyone reading this, if you want to reach out and offer mutual aid to people who are surviving genocide, please see https://gaza-verified.org/donate where you can help families directly via their fundraisers.
@aral I fully respect and appreciate your Gaza Verified initiative, Aral. I really do. And had your first post been worded positively, informing me that you have actually solved one of the problems I have identified, I would have applauded that.
But subjectively, the way I read your post was more along the lines of you writing, "Hey arsehole, wake up!", and that is why I replied to you the way I did.
You and I do not know each other, but you seem interesting and I hope I get to know you.
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@aral I fully respect and appreciate your Gaza Verified initiative, Aral. I really do. And had your first post been worded positively, informing me that you have actually solved one of the problems I have identified, I would have applauded that.
But subjectively, the way I read your post was more along the lines of you writing, "Hey arsehole, wake up!", and that is why I replied to you the way I did.
You and I do not know each other, but you seem interesting and I hope I get to know you.
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@aral Now, since we agree that identification is essentail to human aid, can we also agree that tag spamming is not a proper use of Mastodon?
Because when I see, say, an African account creating dozens of money request posts each day, tagging as many users as they can fit into each post, I feel they are using Mastodon in a way which is not helpful.
Like everyone else, I have a finite limit to how many people I can support, and this limit is not raised through spam.
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@randahl
"Only give to aid orgs" and "no begging allowed" - if fedi ever gets like that we might as well start investing in those horrible anti-homeless benches and stuff..@krnlg I share your sentiment. Mastodon should definitely be a place where we can help each other — financial or otherwise.
At the same time, I also believe that tag spamming is an improper use of Mastodon — no matter your noble cause.
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@GroupNebula563 @randahl Genuinely confused by this response?
Do you perceive something different or otherwise objectionable with African countries? Could you explain more?
@thathackergirl @randahl agreed, what’s wrong with Africa?
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Assaf - as the things you have said are manifestly not true, and you spreading this lie will hurt some of the most vulnerable people in the world, my best guess is that you are a Zionist...
Hard to know - but your post would align perfectly with other zionist liars and murderers we've seen here.
I don't have a problem with your politics, and if you want to mail scammers a cheque to feel good that's not my problem, I'm just cluing randahl that this is a very common scam technique and has nothing to do with etiquette
(PS I recommend reading about scam complexes, how people get imprisoned there, etc)
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I don't have a problem with your politics, and if you want to mail scammers a cheque to feel good that's not my problem, I'm just cluing randahl that this is a very common scam technique and has nothing to do with etiquette
(PS I recommend reading about scam complexes, how people get imprisoned there, etc)
Mate - I work in banking finance and security. So fuck right off.
What you said about Gaza hurts people. Real people.
You know NOTHING - that is no-thing about conditions in Gaza. Manifestly. And yet you post what is incapable of being differentiated from Zionist propaganda.
Randahl can make his own mind up - but you? Just hurting the most vulnerable from a position of dude-bro ignorance and privilege. Congratulations.
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@GroupNebula563 @randahl Genuinely confused by this response?
Do you perceive something different or otherwise objectionable with African countries? Could you explain more?
@thathackergirl all I meant was, I suppose accounts belonging to residents of the African continent are not verified by the Gaza Verified project, since Gaza is in The Middle East.
@GroupNebula563
