All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia.
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@annasdtc Exactly. And "host it yourself" doesn't help at all when the software you're supposed to host yourself is being developed by problematic people.
@geeeero surely some of them will say "just develop your own software then", or something like that
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc For me, the way forward is not for everyone to self-host his email, etc. It's that the provider of these services need to stop being large companies, but instead of cooperatives whose workers or executive groups comes from circles you share values with. Something like e.g having your email hosted by a sysadmin co-op that hosting services only to residents of a city, for exemple, I don't know ... Same applies to open source software: it gets forked all the time, so you keep using the fork maintained by the university/coop/whatever you trust.
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@annasdtc For me, the way forward is not for everyone to self-host his email, etc. It's that the provider of these services need to stop being large companies, but instead of cooperatives whose workers or executive groups comes from circles you share values with. Something like e.g having your email hosted by a sysadmin co-op that hosting services only to residents of a city, for exemple, I don't know ... Same applies to open source software: it gets forked all the time, so you keep using the fork maintained by the university/coop/whatever you trust.
@ered that makes some more sense.
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@annasdtc For me, the way forward is not for everyone to self-host his email, etc. It's that the provider of these services need to stop being large companies, but instead of cooperatives whose workers or executive groups comes from circles you share values with. Something like e.g having your email hosted by a sysadmin co-op that hosting services only to residents of a city, for exemple, I don't know ... Same applies to open source software: it gets forked all the time, so you keep using the fork maintained by the university/coop/whatever you trust.
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@annasdtc For me, the way forward is not for everyone to self-host his email, etc. It's that the provider of these services need to stop being large companies, but instead of cooperatives whose workers or executive groups comes from circles you share values with. Something like e.g having your email hosted by a sysadmin co-op that hosting services only to residents of a city, for exemple, I don't know ... Same applies to open source software: it gets forked all the time, so you keep using the fork maintained by the university/coop/whatever you trust.
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc no. what you need is people with the ability and the resources to host stuff for friends. I do it, on a tiny scale, I'd like to do more of it but I don't have the hardware or the security
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc Problen is: If people ain't paying for their hosting, they ain't the customer but the product.
- And if people are too complicit and used to all the "free" bs they refuse to acknowledge the problem…
- People need to acknowledge that they also #pay for #MicroSlop and other #GAGAM garbage…
There are groups like @systemli, @disroot and @riseup as well as hosters like @ubernauten that do tackle that, but unless we truly socialize compute resources and #TechLiteracy this is a problem.
- However things get better by the day: Youvcan use #Monero instead of #CreditCards for example in an increasing number of places…
- And if people are too complicit and used to all the "free" bs they refuse to acknowledge the problem…
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@samwilson @ered @annasdtc better even: Choose #Cooperatives where you are the vo-owner and where they have to put your interests first as shareholder by law!
The next best option are non-profit community projects…
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@annasdtc @mroach @ered congrats, that's public infrastructure…
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc I think the people who code and say such things can't imagine what anyone would do other than coding. If they *could* imagine, they moght just stop coding
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@annasdtc no. what you need is people with the ability and the resources to host stuff for friends. I do it, on a tiny scale, I'd like to do more of it but I don't have the hardware or the security
@freya @annasdtc yeah, that is an old problem…
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@annasdtc For me, the way forward is not for everyone to self-host his email, etc. It's that the provider of these services need to stop being large companies, but instead of cooperatives whose workers or executive groups comes from circles you share values with. Something like e.g having your email hosted by a sysadmin co-op that hosting services only to residents of a city, for exemple, I don't know ... Same applies to open source software: it gets forked all the time, so you keep using the fork maintained by the university/coop/whatever you trust.
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc Perhaps ironically, it also seems like a very stereotypically American worldview.
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc I find it goes a long way to find services that you pay for, rather than the vast bulk of people who look for "free" services that use surveillance as the means to extract revenue.
The fediverse is almost uniquely populated with people who *can* approach a vast number of these problems by self-hosting — and are tempted to do so for themselves. I think many who talk about that as a solution, really mean just for themselves. They're not actually advocating it as a general solution.
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc I really appreciated the GamersNexus/Level1Techs collab video on Youtube recently, where they talked about self-hosting with ideas like 'buddy backups'... except they specifically called out that it needs to be a communal thing where (poorly paraphrased) if you know how to do stuff like this, that means that it's *your* obligation to do that work and maintain that infrastructure for your social groups
it's a sentiment I don't see a lot, but it *has* thankfully been becoming more widespread over the past few years, even in self-hosting circles, that realization that it can't work as an individualist thing -
All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc Yes! We've had professional specialisation into baker, farmer, blacksmith and sysadmin for millennia!
I'm even in IT and still don't have the knowledge or proficience, nor the time or energy to gain it.
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@annasdtc For me, the way forward is not for everyone to self-host his email, etc. It's that the provider of these services need to stop being large companies, but instead of cooperatives whose workers or executive groups comes from circles you share values with. Something like e.g having your email hosted by a sysadmin co-op that hosting services only to residents of a city, for exemple, I don't know ... Same applies to open source software: it gets forked all the time, so you keep using the fork maintained by the university/coop/whatever you trust.
@ered @annasdtc pretty much this.
Compare how e.g. the book shop business has been squeezed by the likes of Amazon, and partly in a reaction to the resulting dysfunction of the market, some authors have taken to self-publishing. In a properly functioning market, an author shouldn't need to run their own publishing house and book shop. -
@annasdtc I find it goes a long way to find services that you pay for, rather than the vast bulk of people who look for "free" services that use surveillance as the means to extract revenue.
The fediverse is almost uniquely populated with people who *can* approach a vast number of these problems by self-hosting — and are tempted to do so for themselves. I think many who talk about that as a solution, really mean just for themselves. They're not actually advocating it as a general solution.
@stevendbrewer Yeah. I am happy to pay for digital stuff in the same way I pay for physical stuff. But, indeed, the answers to my toot (and to @redjives 's original toot I quoted) are 90% based on being capable and knowledgeable to self-host or small-cooperative host or stuff. And I do actually think that many of them see it as a general solution (probably because most folks around them are similar to them and don't see that other people may not have the same inclination).
