All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia.
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc
many people have always been (rightly) suspicious of the individualist 'self' framing and look and experiment and practice community, cooperative, or mutual hosting models.
https://vvvvvvaria.org/~decentral1se/notes/watermill-dreams/ -
All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc
self hosting something minimal is fun and all, but big picture, it doesn't help in the slightest.
that's like if an army were attacking you and the proposed solution would be "just carve soldiers out of soap." -
All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc
Even when there is plenty of open source software to self-host everything, this is not generally feasible. It requires a lot of configuration and security knowledge to get it safely up and running.
But there are sufficient non big tech, even non-USA, companies to choose from for all basic services. -
All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc @troublewithwords @redjives
to self-host is closer to telling you to grow your own food from scratch, including foraging for seeds.
you’ll be dead in a month.
as i replied to the thread:
**nothing** is better to self-host if you’re not a veteran developer.
even veteran sysadmins get hacked all the time.
**all** software has vulnerabilities, so relying on professional services is almost always the best bet for almost everybody.
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc yeah having to do everything yourself sucks. and that’s coming from someone who picks DIY over other options every time. the thing is, i mostly do that because i like broadening my skillset, because new experiences are fun, all that. the part where i have to (like when the healthcare system sucks and i gotta homebrew HRT) just makes me angry.
but, and you should know this because you’re on the fediverse, it’s not always a black-and-white choice between self-hosting or entrusting tech companies with your data. we can still help each other as a community. things aren’t that dystopian yet, and we should keep working to steer clear of that timeline.
i don’t think incentivizing people to self-host whenever some corp screws up is bad per se, but i think we should go a bit further and also equip those interested with better tools and know-how for doing that in a way that allows them to host for a community without too much risk or effort.
and the sooner we normalize that the better, because sweeping regulations aimed solely at corps have already resulted in collateral damage that makes running such things unfeasible for a lot of people. -
All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
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@annasdtc it may not be yours, but it is an ideal society for many. you don't have to do everything yourself, but a community you trust should help you with it
@annasdtc >If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it".
very few normal people would say that public transport is better than a car, especially if they live in the real world and not in delusion -
All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc rather like "grow your own vegables" or "make your own clothes"
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@annasdtc yeah having to do everything yourself sucks. and that’s coming from someone who picks DIY over other options every time. the thing is, i mostly do that because i like broadening my skillset, because new experiences are fun, all that. the part where i have to (like when the healthcare system sucks and i gotta homebrew HRT) just makes me angry.
but, and you should know this because you’re on the fediverse, it’s not always a black-and-white choice between self-hosting or entrusting tech companies with your data. we can still help each other as a community. things aren’t that dystopian yet, and we should keep working to steer clear of that timeline.
i don’t think incentivizing people to self-host whenever some corp screws up is bad per se, but i think we should go a bit further and also equip those interested with better tools and know-how for doing that in a way that allows them to host for a community without too much risk or effort.
and the sooner we normalize that the better, because sweeping regulations aimed solely at corps have already resulted in collateral damage that makes running such things unfeasible for a lot of people.@mia @annasdtc this is been my primary motivation for providing colo services which very few hosting providers do anymore (because it is easier and more profit-dense to just offer 100% virtualized resources). there is a balance between "i am going to do ALL OF IT myself" and "please hold my hand i'm scared" and most people fall somewhere in the middle and accommodating that is very much aligned with my beliefs.
i do not recommend anyone try to do what i do wholesale as it's the extreme end of things. i literally have a datacenter in my basement and i'm running mini splits out windows. i have datacenter contracts that cost more than your average rent payment. it costs thousands and thousands of dollars to set up all this and a whole lot of headaches to maintain it. colo is great because it's entirely that person's hardware so they get full self hosting cred and i do all the hard and expensive shit on that person's behalf like doing routing on the public internet, inventory management, security, etc. plus i get to teach people how this shit works.
it's about as close to a "co-op" as possible although I have some corporate shenanigans to do later next year to restructure the company a little closer to an actual co-op model (US B corp) -
@mia @annasdtc this is been my primary motivation for providing colo services which very few hosting providers do anymore (because it is easier and more profit-dense to just offer 100% virtualized resources). there is a balance between "i am going to do ALL OF IT myself" and "please hold my hand i'm scared" and most people fall somewhere in the middle and accommodating that is very much aligned with my beliefs.
i do not recommend anyone try to do what i do wholesale as it's the extreme end of things. i literally have a datacenter in my basement and i'm running mini splits out windows. i have datacenter contracts that cost more than your average rent payment. it costs thousands and thousands of dollars to set up all this and a whole lot of headaches to maintain it. colo is great because it's entirely that person's hardware so they get full self hosting cred and i do all the hard and expensive shit on that person's behalf like doing routing on the public internet, inventory management, security, etc. plus i get to teach people how this shit works.
it's about as close to a "co-op" as possible although I have some corporate shenanigans to do later next year to restructure the company a little closer to an actual co-op model (US B corp) -
@theorytoe @mia @annasdtc colocation. you slap a server you own in someone else's rack and they provide power/networking/management/remote hands/etc.
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@theorytoe @mia @annasdtc colocation. you slap a server you own in someone else's rack and they provide power/networking/management/remote hands/etc.
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@theorytoe @mia @annasdtc depends. if you have a bazillion VPSes it starts to make sense to just run your own proxmox node. i also literally give hardware out for free i have a spreadsheet and everything.
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All this self-host techie discourse sounds, to me, a bit like a self-sufficiency dystopia. If we were discussing how bad public transportation is, and someone replied "just transport yourself", most of us would say "that's not it". But when we discuss wanting to get out of large American tech or of nazi-sympathyzing companies, the solution can't be "just host your services yourself". Having to do everything yourself is not my idea of a functioning society.
@annasdtc
To me, this is an interesting question indeed. Some want to make their own bread, and thereby understand how a real baker makes bread. Isn't self-hosting a bit of the same idea? -
@theorytoe @mia @annasdtc depends. if you have a bazillion VPSes it starts to make sense to just run your own proxmox node. i also literally give hardware out for free i have a spreadsheet and everything.
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@theorytoe @mia @annasdtc depends. if you have a bazillion VPSes it starts to make sense to just run your own proxmox node. i also literally give hardware out for free i have a spreadsheet and everything.
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@theorytoe @mia @annasdtc >I really dont run anything at a scale where proxmox is even a consideration
it was nice when this was true for me.
now i have 15 of em. -
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@theorytoe @mia @annasdtc >I really dont run anything at a scale where proxmox is even a consideration
it was nice when this was true for me.
now i have 15 of em. -
@annasdtc
To me, this is an interesting question indeed. Some want to make their own bread, and thereby understand how a real baker makes bread. Isn't self-hosting a bit of the same idea?@wolfgangcramer@fediscience.org @annasdtc@sciences.social And some people should, because they want to and it makes sense to want to, and to learn.
What of it?
Some folks are not going to be up to the task. My wife has a Master's in Library Science, she is an excellent blue ribbon winning baker. She has zero interest in self-hosting a website. She should not be required to.
