had dinner last night with a couple of kids from Texas and their assessment is that the education system is completely fucked.
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had dinner last night with a couple of kids from Texas and their assessment is that the education system is completely fucked. it's all teachers using ChatGPT to make lessons that kids complete using ChatGPT and then teachers grade the work using ChatGPT. you couldn't undermine a society more effectively if you set out to do it on purpose.
I hafta say--it was deliberately fucked a long time before that. Hell, I'd say forced schooling was deliberately fucked from the get-go. The medium is the message, it teaches punctuality and obedience. It teaches to never learn more than the bare minimum necessary to bullshit the rest, and never admit when you don't know something. Forced schooling was deliberately instituted to extend childhood, hence the age-segregation. What we consider an eighteen year old maturity level today would be a thirteen year old a hundred years ago. A lot of people never develop further, and who's easier to manipulate and control than a child? People like Dewey used to brag on that stuff. Forced schooling was implemented to destroy ethnic identities. Grandpa became a silly old guy who talks funny rather than a venerated source of cultural continuity. Forced schooling ain't a positive, but this is just the historical stuff. These days...
It was bad enough when I went through in the 80s and 90s, but after bush2 stole his election, it fell off a cliff. The very idea that phones are allowed in the classroom is absurd. They changed fucking math. I tried to help my gf's kid with her algebra homework but couldn't understand it. I can do calculus, and offered to teach her how to do algebra, but she preferred to jump through hoops to pass algebra class. And as far as I know, the children still have power over the teacher's salary, and even employment. That is an absurd power inversion. I was in a county college when I was in my mid 20's, taking classes with teenagers straight out of high school, and they were spoiled obnoxious. I saw them break a physics teacher. Nobody did the homework so homework review took the whole class so no new topics were ever introduced. Since even at the collegiate level, you're not allowed to fail a whole class despite the fact they all deserve it, after the mid term the prof gave up on teaching physics and just gave everyone a B.
LLMs simply formalized the hollowness of American forced schooling. It's great for producing amoral frat-boy salesman types and general infantry. Terrible for producing artists and scientists. And informed voters.
Education is a lifelong, self-directed process, and forced schooling exists to subvert that and replace it with a bare minimum of received wisdom.
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i'm so angry at what the billionaires have done to us because of their psychotic greed and lust for power. the harm to the public is incalculable. Nuremberg trials for the AI financiers and then public executions.
@peter We as a society have allowed them to do that to us!
we need to get away from the narative that someone else did this to us.
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had dinner last night with a couple of kids from Texas and their assessment is that the education system is completely fucked. it's all teachers using ChatGPT to make lessons that kids complete using ChatGPT and then teachers grade the work using ChatGPT. you couldn't undermine a society more effectively if you set out to do it on purpose.
@peter "Someone" _did_ set out to do this on purpose.
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@peter We as a society have allowed them to do that to us!
we need to get away from the narative that someone else did this to us.
@peter It might be easy as that's not something we can do anything about.
But we can! Each and Every One of us!
But that is hard! And takes effort! And is uncomfortable!
But it is *our* society! Not theirs!
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I disagree.
Those public executions will show other billionaires, CEOS, entrepreneurs and smoke sellers what happens when you mess up with society.
Therefore they must be public and excruciatingly painful.
@DBG3D @ariarhythmic @peter yes we need to make examples.
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@peter no billionaire has done that to us. We do that to ourselves
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@peter The reason this is happening is ChatGPT is a perfect fit to what the education systems has demanded all along, which is busywork for the sake of busywork, lengthy writings that hold no meaning, time-consuming assignments that serve no purpose.
LLMs are *great* for this! It's not that they've fundamentally messed up the system that was, it's that their presence is shining a spotlight on how shitty it's always been.
@ariarhythmic @peter Actually good point. Schools have to be made more fun too, and teach why learning things is important.
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@DBG3D @ariarhythmic @peter yes we need to make examples.
@f4grx @DBG3D@masto.es @peter Is it the 21st century or the negative 21st?
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@f4grx @DBG3D@masto.es @peter Is it the 21st century or the negative 21st?
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Reality has a liberal bias.
A liberal is a conservative who's been mugged by reality.
In the US, the schooling system is designed to squash liberals and empower reactionary fabulists. I'm saying to fix the schools, not abandon them.
I'm not a "defund the police" guy either, despite being fully aware of how shitty they are. Law and order are necessary. Without it, power devolves to the biggest bastard with the most guns. I'm just saying there's a better way, and it's not like the better way is any kind of a secret. As a species, we know all the answers to create an educated, safe, equitable, sustainable society. It's just that things like forced schooling sabotage any ability to achieve that.
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@ariarhythmic @peter yes. I'm the most horrible person you can imagine, and even more. Obviously.
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@ariarhythmic @peter yes. I'm the most horrible person you can imagine, and even more. Obviously.
@f4grx @peter Didn't we figure out murdering political opponents in death camps was bad in the 1940s? Did you forget?
Or is your point that instead of removing oppressive systems, you want to be placed in charge of them? Didn't we learn how that works out with the tyrannical regimes of the Soviet Union and now the PRC?
Or have you never bothered to? -
had dinner last night with a couple of kids from Texas and their assessment is that the education system is completely fucked. it's all teachers using ChatGPT to make lessons that kids complete using ChatGPT and then teachers grade the work using ChatGPT. you couldn't undermine a society more effectively if you set out to do it on purpose.
@peter Back to hand writing!
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@ariarhythmic @peter Actually good point. Schools have to be made more fun too, and teach why learning things is important.
@Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter I ran into a surprising manifestation of this when I was in high school in the 2010s, which I assume happened due to some shift in guidelines. Suddenly everything was about critical thinking! Critical thinking is a good skill yes. But nobody even bothered to explain what it was. How it works. How you go about training it. They just expected everyone to have it from the off. And while I may or may not have it, can you explain to me how the fuck you define it? I was a very confused autist.
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@peter Back to hand writing!
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had dinner last night with a couple of kids from Texas and their assessment is that the education system is completely fucked. it's all teachers using ChatGPT to make lessons that kids complete using ChatGPT and then teachers grade the work using ChatGPT. you couldn't undermine a society more effectively if you set out to do it on purpose.
@peter What makes you think this is not the purpose, or at least an intentional consequence?
The less informed, the less capable of independent thought, the easier to subject.
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@Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter I ran into a surprising manifestation of this when I was in high school in the 2010s, which I assume happened due to some shift in guidelines. Suddenly everything was about critical thinking! Critical thinking is a good skill yes. But nobody even bothered to explain what it was. How it works. How you go about training it. They just expected everyone to have it from the off. And while I may or may not have it, can you explain to me how the fuck you define it? I was a very confused autist.
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@peter The reason this is happening is ChatGPT is a perfect fit to what the education systems has demanded all along, which is busywork for the sake of busywork, lengthy writings that hold no meaning, time-consuming assignments that serve no purpose.
LLMs are *great* for this! It's not that they've fundamentally messed up the system that was, it's that their presence is shining a spotlight on how shitty it's always been.
@ariarhythmic @peter I’m not an expert on our educational system as a whole, but my wife is a teacher, and this doesn't reflect her commitment to teaching at all. She puts a lot of work into her lesson plans, assignments and grading. Based on some of her student evaluations and comments on sites like Rate my Professor, it's clear that some students won't give her methods a chance and write her assignments off as pointless.
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@f4grx @peter Didn't we figure out murdering political opponents in death camps was bad in the 1940s? Did you forget?
Or is your point that instead of removing oppressive systems, you want to be placed in charge of them? Didn't we learn how that works out with the tyrannical regimes of the Soviet Union and now the PRC?
Or have you never bothered to?@ariarhythmic @f4grx @peter
There was a notable difference between the death camps and the Nuremberg trials.
