Rust wgpu now has a
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@r @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy the entire fucking country would collapse if not for people who made that choice at a young age, to learn despite being punished for it
and it's too much to put on children. it's completely unfair.
@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy it's Fun
️ how certain topics that schools are particularly bad at (not only the US, although the US is extra bad), such as "abstraction", are *absolutely critical* for the current "computer age"although it's Fun
️-squared that this has been identified, with *basically this exact rhetoric too*, and yet the US didn't actually deal with it -
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it is not possible within the confines of the activitypub protocol to represent how much I love this post
this is a good post and I like this post a lot
CC: @mcc@mastodon.social -
@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy it's Fun
️ how certain topics that schools are particularly bad at (not only the US, although the US is extra bad), such as "abstraction", are *absolutely critical* for the current "computer age"although it's Fun
️-squared that this has been identified, with *basically this exact rhetoric too*, and yet the US didn't actually deal with it@r @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy wouldn't want to create an educated proletariat, after all
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@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy it's Fun
️ how certain topics that schools are particularly bad at (not only the US, although the US is extra bad), such as "abstraction", are *absolutely critical* for the current "computer age"although it's Fun
️-squared that this has been identified, with *basically this exact rhetoric too*, and yet the US didn't actually deal with it@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy this is something that i seriously want to do something about, although i haven't had much chance to discuss it with people and don't know _how_
how can we teach people abstraction (as a first-class idea, the way computer-touchers would think about it)?
the problem is that this isn't something that can be taught via direct instruction, it basically has to be experienced/ discovered and reinforced
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@r @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy wouldn't want to create an educated proletariat, after all
@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy the frustrating thing is, (as we were briefly privately discussing), at some point they did!
and then they (possibly a different group of "they"?) decided to change their minds
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@mcc/117338324202161763
@eniko thanks.
and yeah, we need a kernel. one person can't write a kernel. it's not a matter of scope. it's a matter of you have to test more hardware configurations than one person can get in a private residence. we need that kernel handled by an *institution*.
the problem with freedos is if we want to make *games* then probably at some point we want access to sound and video. and if you want your game to render by any method other than CPU-on-framebuffer sound and video become Very Hard.
@mcc @eniko I sometimes wonder if we need so many hardware configurations, especially for personal devices. We could do well with some stability within a paired down feature set, even if it's not the most "powerful". A lot of the product differentiation out there is just capitalists trying to eat each other's lunch.
What's the most minimal GPU you'd find acceptable?
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Servo rests atop wgpu. Therefore, if my OS's entire GUI layer is servo, and I believe that implementing webgpu is easier than implementing vulkan, I can increase my chances of writing a working video-acceleration driver if I simplify it so *the driver supplies wgpu*, instead of trying to support the full scope of DRI/DRM or OpenGL/Vulkan or whatever this entails.
Two things I want, in both cases wgpu provides a critical, project-saving step.
And oh, I think wgpu might be slop now. Never mind!
@mcc I didn't quite follow the whole thread, but I think it's worth clarifying that wgpu is only used in Servo to implement webgpu, which is an optional feature. Servo rests atop webrender instead.
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@mcc @eniko I sometimes wonder if we need so many hardware configurations, especially for personal devices. We could do well with some stability within a paired down feature set, even if it's not the most "powerful". A lot of the product differentiation out there is just capitalists trying to eat each other's lunch.
What's the most minimal GPU you'd find acceptable?
@thankfulmachine @eniko last time I perceived a computer being specifically better than the computer I had before it was like, 2009, so let's say about as powerful as a standard 2009 desktop GPU? I'd also probably be fine to go back to 2001 or 2003. But I need some degree of shader support
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@mcc I didn't quite follow the whole thread, but I think it's worth clarifying that wgpu is only used in Servo to implement webgpu, which is an optional feature. Servo rests atop webrender instead.
@jdm_ that's very good to know, however, all the rust software *I* wrote in the last four or so years was written atop wgpu, and this was the entirety of my plan for running my software inside servo, if my wacky "ChromeOS but Servo" idea came to fruition
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@jdm_ that's very good to know, however, all the rust software *I* wrote in the last four or so years was written atop wgpu, and this was the entirety of my plan for running my software inside servo, if my wacky "ChromeOS but Servo" idea came to fruition
@mcc Ah, yeah, That would be a sticking point
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@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy the frustrating thing is, (as we were briefly privately discussing), at some point they did!
and then they (possibly a different group of "they"?) decided to change their minds
@r @ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @amarioguy the capitalist class successfully broke the strong labor and revolutionary socialist movements that they were bulwarking against in the first place and had no more reason not to tighten the noose, same as the collapse of the welfare state, same as why public healthcare is being dismantled outside the US and so on
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@r @ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @amarioguy the capitalist class successfully broke the strong labor and revolutionary socialist movements that they were bulwarking against in the first place and had no more reason not to tighten the noose, same as the collapse of the welfare state, same as why public healthcare is being dismantled outside the US and so on
@decay @r @MaddieM4 @mcc @amarioguy with that said, though, there is an awful lot of educated, pro-labor, pro-positive-change community in existence right this moment. the factors that gave rise to it may be gone, we can't count on such a thing being around forever, but we as people still exist, in this moment.
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@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy on this note, it's an absolute shame that "pre-calculus" in the USA K-12 "traditional" math pathway is such a poorly-implemented clusterfuck
for those not familiar, as far as i can tell, this was *supposed to be* a wrap-up of elementary algebra and *the bridge* into the "real math" mode of thinking (i.e. the "correct" blend of formalisms, beauty, discovery, abstractions, etc. that mathematicians actually use)
instead, it typically turns into a poorly-motivated grab-bag of topics that aren't clearly "calculus" but that they couldn't fit anywhere else
a bunch of the "i wish i knew the math needed to do X" i've seen where X is something computer+art-ish doesn't actually require much beyond this (okay, probably some extra discrete math bits because the USA curriculum just refuses to add any of that)
@r @ireneista @mcc @decay @amarioguy You just gave me flashbacks to being extremely bitter and feeling helpless in precalc, because I actually knew calculus! I learned it for game engine stuff, because I wanted to make games! Failing precalc while knowing calculus feels so so bad and makes you wonder how you could be this kind of broken.
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@r @ireneista @mcc @decay @amarioguy You just gave me flashbacks to being extremely bitter and feeling helpless in precalc, because I actually knew calculus! I learned it for game engine stuff, because I wanted to make games! Failing precalc while knowing calculus feels so so bad and makes you wonder how you could be this kind of broken.
@MaddieM4 @r @mcc @decay @amarioguy it's the schools to blame, and the policymakers who decided it should be that way. it was never your fault.
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@mcc @MaddieM4 The original SPIR was a fork of LLVM IR. SPIR-V is more or less "GLSL encoded as an SSA-based VM bytecode". @decay @riley @ireneista @amarioguy
@mcc @MaddieM4 @ireneista This was done for a couple reasons. One is that LLVM IR is not actually a stable target, it is ultimately an implementation detail of LLVM and changes as LLVM changes so you have to follow upstream LLVM or maintain your ancient version forever. Which is not desirable in a standard interchange format. The other is that LLVM isn't really a good fit for GPU code for a number of reasons, and was even less of a good fit at the time.
