Emigrating has generally been a very, very complicated and difficult task, but by far the hardest aspect has been relearning how to use a knife and fork.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes so I've been "right" this whole time?
The hand switching seemed like a waste of time. Then again, only being able to do something with one particular hand seemed like a waste of resources.
And in addition to that, I also practiced drawing circles in opposite directions with each hand and writing mirror text with my left and...
... Okay yeah, I'm probably neurodivergent.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes I'm a Finn, so from a different culture. I was taught to use fork and knife, fork in the left and the knife in the right. That's kind of the 'formal default' for me. I use that even when eating in public, like a lunch restaurant, with coworkers. Alone at lunch, it's probably just a fork in the right hand and cutting everything with it.
At home I often use the US 'knife in right, fork in left, cut everything up, then use for in the right hand to eat'.
Depends on the situation.
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@bent0_b0x @hacks4pancakes was wondering the same.
Is serving meat with big serrated steak knives an American thing? Starts making sense that you might need one of those without a fork to hold it down.
@bent0_b0x @hacks4pancakes re-reading the thread I think I’m confused. The fork is used to assist the cutting, just swapped to the other hand to eat. 🫠
Respect to the cultures that believe cutting up food is a kitchen job. 🥢
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@hacks4pancakes which one of the three forks are you talking about?
@pagra @hacks4pancakes that is very old fashioned. In the posh restaurants they have enough staff to bring stuff when needed. Max two dishes ahead is now the rule for a traditional menu, and only as needed for a tasting menu.
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Emigrating has generally been a very, very complicated and difficult task, but by far the hardest aspect has been relearning how to use a knife and fork. It's way harder than accents or driving on the other side of the road.
@hacks4pancakes Yes, I have given up. I sit there switching back and forth while I watch everybody else at the table somehow stack half a plateful of food on the back of their fork. My coping strategy is generally to cut up everything at once (like for a toddler).
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes wow. I never clocked Americans were doing that. I'm mostly ambidextrous, so I expect to be able to fork with whatever hand, but mostly I think it's about knife. If the knife's present, everything else just has to make do.
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This is legitimately not a joke. I feel so stupid and clumsy. I'm not sure I will ever get it down even though I try every single time I go out to dinner. And I was raised with strict table manners and can eat with chopsticks perfectly, too.
In what hand do you hold the rice?
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@hacks4pancakes thank you for teaching me a new bit of knowledge. I did not know this difference in table manners and would not have expected that even with something so basic such differences could exist.
@mainec @hacks4pancakes neither did I and although I've lived in the US, been utterly oblivious to it. Maybe people saw my European fork use and were shocked - just too polite to say
There's also the Indian "right hand only" rule which B. Was brought up on, and, being left handed, she absolutely hated growing up. We have a "whatever suits" policy in our house, just as I don't mandate a specific text editor.*
* household ban vs.code on security grounds though
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This is legitimately not a joke. I feel so stupid and clumsy. I'm not sure I will ever get it down even though I try every single time I go out to dinner. And I was raised with strict table manners and can eat with chopsticks perfectly, too.
the obvious solution is to just eat at restaurants with chopsticks.
And yes, putting your left hand in your lap to then scoop up your food with the fork looks rude to many Europeans.
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@hacks4pancakes wow. I never clocked Americans were doing that. I'm mostly ambidextrous, so I expect to be able to fork with whatever hand, but mostly I think it's about knife. If the knife's present, everything else just has to make do.
@hacks4pancakes that said, I'm too ill to eat trad meals most of the time, and I grew up in chinatown, so I usu do all my cutting before I start, then only fork/spoon/chopsticks anyway.
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@pagra @hacks4pancakes that is very old fashioned. In the posh restaurants they have enough staff to bring stuff when needed. Max two dishes ahead is now the rule for a traditional menu, and only as needed for a tasting menu.
@Klara @hacks4pancakes yes of course, it was only for the joke
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@hacks4pancakes I might not have learned *strict* table manners, but I learned that the fork should point in a 90° angle from the hand held only with the first few fingers, like holding a pen. If it is linear with the arm and maybe even held with all fingers (goddess!
) that's terrible 
But I also never learned to switch knife and fork. So I "eat like a left-handed person" (surprise, I'm partially ambidextrous).
Additional rules included things like: never cut potatoes (or fries/chips) with a knife, break them with the fork, never put used cutlery back on the table.
Oh, and never put your hands under the table, but lift the arm going to the mouth from the table.What I read somewhere about US use of cutlery was, that the standard way was to cut everything (like meat) at the beginning, then put the knife down and eat with the fork in the right hand, left hand on your left tigh. Some years later I saw think in reality and it was fascinating.
I'm terrible at using chopsticks though. My ADHD problem with micromovements makes it hard to control my fingers like I need to. Similar to hand writing: I can write, but it looks always irregular and every time I write the same sentence it looks irregular in a different way.
@sashag @hacks4pancakes I have the same problem with writing, but not with chopsticks. As a kid my brother and I trained for a chinese meal that was planned with friends, and we got permission to eat a whole week with chopsticks (cutting potatoes and meat first) so I even master peas.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes I'm probably not in the right social circles, because when take a look around in the cantina at work, probably 70% will - like me - keep the fork in their right hand and cut with the left. I remember being told when I was a kid that it was supposed to be the other way around, but it was never enforced by anybody.
And how badly cooked must your meal be to justify using your dominant hand for cutting? -
@hacks4pancakes If it helps, I can tell you that although I was raised in Europe, with a strict fork-in-left-hand rule, I never obeyed by it, because I felt fork in the right had was more convenient (i.e. knife in left hand).
I still do it to this day, and having eaten at both plain and fancy occasions in many places the world, I've survived.
But, on a similar topic, I have noticed that Americans very often tend to use a fork only, and then use the fork to cut things. I don't know if it stands out, but I notice it.
(perhaps people notice my holding the fork wrong and they're just too polite to mention it?)
Edit: One more thing: The only time my knife-in-left-hand gives me trouble is when I go to a fancy restaurant and they have those special fish knives. Those are difficult to use with the left hand.
@loke I'm the same. I eat with the fork in right hand as well. So does my dad. Why wouldn't I hold the tool I use most in my dominant hand? I think it's an absolutely silly rule. Not once did anybody even mention that I do it "the wrong way" and Swiss people have stick up their butt when it comes to nonsensical rules. Or maybe I just haven't eaten with people who see themselves as fancy enough to care
@hacks4pancakes if you don't plan to spend a lot of time around people with more money than sense I wouldn't stress about the fork. -
@Klara @hacks4pancakes yes of course, it was only for the joke
@pagra @hacks4pancakes but the order and kind of implements is correct. Useful diagram for reenacting, or for going full Mrs Bouquet/Bucket on someone.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes
I learned something new today! Ta! -
@loke I'm the same. I eat with the fork in right hand as well. So does my dad. Why wouldn't I hold the tool I use most in my dominant hand? I think it's an absolutely silly rule. Not once did anybody even mention that I do it "the wrong way" and Swiss people have stick up their butt when it comes to nonsensical rules. Or maybe I just haven't eaten with people who see themselves as fancy enough to care
@hacks4pancakes if you don't plan to spend a lot of time around people with more money than sense I wouldn't stress about the fork.@gilgwath @hacks4pancakes my parents were always bugging me about it. They don't anymore though. I think after half a century they've concluded I'm a lost cause or something.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
full blooded USian here. I'm right handed and mostly use fork/left knife/right when using both.
But I probably favor fork in right hand when eating something that doesn't require a knife.
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Emigrating has generally been a very, very complicated and difficult task, but by far the hardest aspect has been relearning how to use a knife and fork. It's way harder than accents or driving on the other side of the road.
@hacks4pancakes Please, don't follow whatever some silly historic idea demands. Use what feels natural to you.
I am right handed, so the equipment that does the most delicate and demanding tasks (the fork) stays in the right hand.
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@hacks4pancakes which one of the three forks are you talking about?
@pagra @hacks4pancakes in my experience any place fancy enough to use the full set of cutlery like that will also be polite enough to never correct their guests. Even if you eat mussels using the butter knife or similar cutlery crimes. They will just silently replace the used item.
