Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software.
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@libreoffice I had a feeling that when you say 'no ai included by default' you meant that you do keep a nook open for it, though.
and it looks like that is the case.
you people made Libreoffice without slop before now. lose your principles, but maybe also be honest about it.and don't say you check each slop line, either
we know you don't. we know your reviewers and the submitters will not.
if you can't even write it, you don't know it, and if you don't know it, giving it a 'look over' is useless.
I could write rocket launch code with ai
and maybe I'd give it a look over before I launch it
but that doesn't mean I knew what to look for, it doesn't mean I could understand a vulnerability if I saw it
and maybe my rocket could get people killed
(inb4 'don't worry, ai is used to check the ai's work!')what ai makes it slop
whether you review the ai, or notmaybe libreoffice would like to purchase the finest of my NFTs?
I also have a few bridges@digipooch I was sincerely surprised OnlyOffice also integrated AI.
We're in deep doo-doo.
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@desantis @TCD @libreoffice 30 years ago when I graded computer science students, since we had no way of knowing if they actually wrote the code themselves, all we had to go on was how well they could explain what they had done and answer questions about it.
But you can’t truthfully answer questions like ”why did you do it like this” when you haven’t done it yourself. And that goes for code that your friend wrote as well as generated code. And the why is important, perhaps the most important.
@ahltorp @TCD @libreoffice This is the way. And, don't get me wrong, sometimes explaining something highly technical in layman's terms can be challenging, yet it is not impossible.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice since I don't work on the code, and it has worked well decades, I have to trust that major and minor releases will be properly tested.
It's an issue of trust.
There's not much trust for llm use, as the responses show.
Llm use has become ubiquitous. The case for technical debt is there.
I choose to trust the project until proven I cannot.
The concerns are real, the stakes are high for digital sovereignty.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice And this, kids, is what we call a cop out.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice So, this policy is just that your project points out the issues with LLMs, states that it is probably not good for someone to use them, limits the uses, and then makes a *blatent exception* for the worst use-cases of LLMs.
This policy is basically the green-washing of LLM policies.
People who write patches with LLMs generally do not read the policies around them, so unless it is a stupid simple yes or no, these things are bikeshed forever. I don't envy your future review process.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice Wait, people don't want their critical data stolen by obese Tech Bros, and organizations like LibreOffice have to appease both the greedy data miners, AND their customers?
Welcome to Capitalism greed, where 'too much' is never too much. Ultimately, you'll move toward 'maximizing profits', so may as well proceed as usual, with superficial reassurances, then fully folding to classic abuse of power.
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@libreoffice I'm sorry, but I switched from MS Office suite to LibreOffice explicitly to avoid LLM utilization at all levels. This doesn't inspire confidence at all.
@Ferroxo @libreoffice
Yeah, not cool.
I wish you could (at every level) banish LLM usage in LibreOffice development. We don’t want a fast development of LibreOffice, new features every week. LLM is only a way to push more new code faster. It has no other role in software development. -
Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice Boo.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice "It doesn't rewrite your content"
False, I have a list of songs that I like (Started making it YEARS ago when my Youtube playlist kept deleting videos/songs that I saved). Whenever I add a - dash - between the artist and song name, hitting space after the song name changes the dash into a bigger dash.
I also had to fight tooth and nail to figure out how to stop LibreOffice writer from auto-correcting words, because it thought I misspelled certain words.
So no, Libreoffice DOES rewrite the things I type down, and can be quite annoying for that.
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@libreoffice Wait, people don't want their critical data stolen by obese Tech Bros, and organizations like LibreOffice have to appease both the greedy data miners, AND their customers?
Welcome to Capitalism greed, where 'too much' is never too much. Ultimately, you'll move toward 'maximizing profits', so may as well proceed as usual, with superficial reassurances, then fully folding to classic abuse of power.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice
stop redefining our feedback to suit your narrative. we want NONE of this. your policy should be a flat "this is not allowed", PERIOD. no alternatives.instead of trying to do damage control PR as if you're trying to sell me something, you should just fix the damn problem. that's all we care about.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice as Yoda might say: have it both ways you cannot.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
It seems like you guys were trying to go for a reasonable compromise, but I really don't think one exists. You allow slop or you don't. You've picked slop*.
I would like to strongly urge you to reconsider this. Your software is important and matters too much for this.
* Which is to say, plagiarism and the potential loss of copyright of your project across several jurisdictions - things which have nothing to do with code quality. You are putting your use of an open license at risk in order to seem "reasonable".
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice you know a technology is good and cool when you have to write a ten point note on how it must not be used. that's when you know it is ready for prime time.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice That's really sad to read. What's the point of FOSS if we're going to be dependent on LLMs (i.e. the worst of Big Tech) for any future development anyway? Because yes, that's unavoidable once you open the gates to LLM-written code. Human contributors *will* start to lose control and knowledge of the codebase.
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@libreoffice "While the use of generative AI based on Large Language Models in software development has several issues, they are allowed in LibreOffice contributions"
I'm sorry but I'm afraid the "with certain restrictions" which follows does not make it not-slop. It is what it is u.u
@VileLasagna @libreoffice Ah, so a if AI writes 1+1=2, it's not true anymore, and jUsT sLoP? You guys are completely losing track ...
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice Still slop, guys. Still sending training data to who? Claude? Codex?
Still fucking up the world.
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@davidgerard @DamonWakes @libreoffice Ah, so a if AI writes 1+1=2, it's not true anymore, and jUsT sLoP? You guys are completely losing track ...
