@hiphopheaven @FediTips How do you get to discussing proof, if you’ve censored the discussion? Notably, the accounts being discussed aren't wishing death on the Jews (in fact, they are pro-Jewish, if anything) and they aren't saying “We should kidnap people" even if the agency behind it is misbehaving (more on that in a moment).

So, no, I do not think people should say all Jews should be exterminated. I'm *vocally* against antisemitism. but I hear people saying chants that are well known to mean just that on here and there isn't pushback. Another problem with censorship: we only apply it to the evils we are passionate about while ignoring other evils that we are apathetic about or guilty of ourselves.

And, to be clear: no, people should not be kidnapped, period. As a law enforcement agency ICE may, of course, arrest people who have violated immigration law, but it needs to do so according to the law and provide due process to guarantee things happen according to the law. But, you don't think censoring the ability of ICE to post will magically make them more strictly apply due process, do you? I sure don't. In fact, them posting shows some of their worst impulses better than critics could ever hope to. Incidentally, ICE's feed *is* often tasteless, but they aren't so stupid as to post "We think we should kidnap people and violate the law." So to censor them, we wouldn't just be censoring particularly heinous statements, but anyone we deem is acting in an unsavory fashion, including all their speech... and doing so without -- wait for it -- due process.

Should all Russian government accounts be censored? All Chinese? All Iranian? All Hamas? Or are we better for being able to see what they are saying and recognizing the problems in it? I'm actually thankful I can read what the Russians are saying, because it shows their willful evil more clearly each time they issue statements about their war with Ukraine, for example.

@hiphopheaven @FediTips My point is censors will inevitably ratchet up the rhetoric to ensure disfavored speech they wish to stop fits the standard required to stop it. For example, Russia deems anything spoken against their war as "supporting Nazis,” since they label their enemies as Nazis. Well, by the standard you describe, that means that speech should be censored. But those of us outside of Russia know, in fact, the Russian government is far more guilty of such behavior than the people they censor.

"Who will watch the watchmen?"

@FediTips My point is that authoritarians *love* censoring speech they don't like -- it is the quintessential hallmark of every authoritarian regime. I believe truth wins if given a platform. Becoming authoritarian to stop authoritarianism is to give authoritarians the victory by becoming them.

(To be fair to you and your point, private servers should federate with whomever they wish. But attempting to pressure the fediverse to eager defederation will not accomplish anything good.)

I really, really dislike when people (like @FediTips, whom I often really appreciate) push for the Fediverse to defederate from unfavored speech. “If there be time to expose through discussion, the falsehoods and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence.”

Pushing for #Bluesky to use its ill-advised centralization to make it more like regular corporate social media that picks winners and losers is antithetical to what we should desire in the decentralized, open web. It's also the exact sort of thing "regimes" like to do.

Speaking of that term: there is plenty of room to criticize any administration, including Trump's. I've criticized the administration and some of its use of social media on here, in fact. But calling a duly elected administration a "regime"... persuades precisely zero people of anything. I've disliked that flex when the Right used it and I dislike it when the Left uses it, too. It also obscures that it is in the public interest for us to know what the White House says, both when we agree and disagree with it.

#FreeSpeech #Fediverse https://social.growyourown.services/@FediTips/115396451982308613