Are social networks unhealthy for minors?
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I've had to block a couple of people already. It's really disappointing.
@evan I know. I pride myself on Freedom of speech.
Dialogue is the only way we can all get along, whether we agree with each other or not. Sadly, some people don't deserve that level of respect.
I've put up with a lot of shit flung at me over the years. I'm happy to be insulted to a certain degree, be denigrated, have my words twisted, and often be lied about, but there comes a time when enough is enough, and I have to hit the Mute button.
They have to be extremely bad for me to block them.
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@evan I never felt like SoundCloud was unhealthy, or IRC back in my days. But yes the so called social media that is just algorithmic based spitting out horseshit of content and bullshit ads absolutely are.
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@evan I know. I pride myself on Freedom of speech.
Dialogue is the only way we can all get along, whether we agree with each other or not. Sadly, some people don't deserve that level of respect.
I've put up with a lot of shit flung at me over the years. I'm happy to be insulted to a certain degree, be denigrated, have my words twisted, and often be lied about, but there comes a time when enough is enough, and I have to hit the Mute button.
They have to be extremely bad for me to block them.
@dick_turpin not me! I am a one-strike blocker. If I find myself typing something angry at someone, I stop myself and block instead. (Usually.)
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@evan
For me, it’s a “No, but…”. I grew up using BBS (only for a short time) and then Usenet. There have always been toxic elements there, and certainly not everything was age-appropriate. So it’s also a reflection of society. And today, especially on commercial networks, that reflection of society is the attention economy and the greed for data.Everyone has a responsibility to ensure that these networks are safe for all users. Children should not simply be shielded from them, but rather taught how to use these media. They will find a way to participate anyway.
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Folks, I know this is a heated issue, but please be respectful of other people in the comments. You can disagree without attacking people personally.
I have a hard line about telling people they are unfit to be parents. That's not an acceptable thing to say to another human being.
@evan fedi has a particularly viscious streak in general rn imo, im actually struggling to reccomend it to anyone
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@evan yes, but they can also be one of the only safe spaces/resourses for certain marginalized youths (broken homes, lgbtq kids, disabled kids, etc) and i honestly think preventing this abuse is worth the risks.
Sure, but what you have there is a desperate cry for, a ringing endorsement of, far better outreach and supports IRL for exactly those situations (and by extension, every situation!)
And with that, I absolutely do not disagree!
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@dick_turpin not me! I am a one-strike blocker. If I find myself typing something angry at someone, I stop myself and block instead. (Usually.)
@evan Ah, the old Knee-jerk reaction, aye?
Christ, how have we managed to stay friends for eighteen years?
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@evan fedi has a particularly viscious streak in general rn imo, im actually struggling to reccomend it to anyone
@kim I get it; it's a tough time in the world and people see it as a way to blow off steam. Blocking is good, modeling good behaviour is good. We can get there.
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(1/2) @evan I've always opposed sanitizing the world for kids.
They *will* get online & find stuff. I did (just w/BBS's!).I *am* sure so-called “social media” *is* toxic for kids. Heck:it's toxic for most adults.
But age verification laws'll put 16 yr olds into business of making fake ids for 10 yr olds.
My mother read Tipper Gore's book & Destroyed all my #punk tapes.
Lars brought me his to school to listen to free.
& the censorship made me an activist for life. So, maybe upsides?
#EvanPoll(2/2) I think often about this old #JelloBiafra spoken word piece as these #AgeVerification laws have been suddenly moving rapidly:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1qOBOooFbHY&t=13m3s
My favorite part: “If [my] child… brought home something…harmful to their emotional growth…like, say, the film _Top Gun_…or a Sammy Hagar album…I wouldn't hit the roof & grab the whole thing away…I'd [instead] sit down with the kid [& ask]: “Tell me why you like it? … [I'll listen then] I'll tell you why I don't like it” -
@red_the_bean My blocklist is not a democracy. You don't get a vote. My attention is my exclusive resource to control.
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@evan Yes, but mostly because creating safe digital spaces for minors is difficult. You need crack moderation teams and robust digital safety plans, as well as actually having their best interests at heart. Very difficult goal to align with those of for-profit companies, extremely difficult to implement by independent groups due to lack of funding. Not to mention the tension that anonymity protects but many protective measures require at least the identification that a user is a minor.
We choose to go to the moon in this decade, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.
We, the human race, especially in the western, in the northern, world have got faaaaar too soft. Too often we see challenges as something to be avoided, rather than to be met head on, and to overcome.
I'm positive the expansion of The Internet, of Social Media has been a factor in that.... I would even not be surprised by evidence that those who created these Social Media's did so at least in part to help make us softer, make us more challenge averse....
Though I may be getting into Tinfoil Hat territory......
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We can't. It's one of those inevitable tragedies of life.
All we can hope to achieve is to provide them with the tools to defend themselves against threats we probably haven't imagined yet.
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@evan Ah, the old Knee-jerk reaction, aye?
Christ, how have we managed to stay friends for eighteen years?
@dick_turpin I kind of feel like it's better than saying something I'll regret later.
I also regularly go through my blocklist and if I can't remember why I blocked someone, I unblock them. So it's more like a cooling-off period.
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@dick_turpin I kind of feel like it's better than saying something I'll regret later.
I also regularly go through my blocklist and if I can't remember why I blocked someone, I unblock them. So it's more like a cooling-off period.
@evan Given mine is populated with folk who can't control themselves even after, in some cases, being told they're crossing the line, I can't see myself un-muting anyone any time soon, which is a shame as there are at least two people on there I was originally friends with, but they decided to turn on me for some reason.
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the problem is "social media" algos. they intentionally fuck with us for profit. bad for everyone but kids are less prepared for manipulation and their brains are still changing. beyond the personal, taken together, they also have a societal impact.
I think staying connected to people they know IRL via "social networking" tools is great for minors. and I think a purely reverse chronological feed without ads is a better way to get news for everyone.
I hope we can make the distinction.
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@evan Social networks are not unhealthy, but the most common type of social networks, the ones designed to harvest attention, are unhealthy. I would, reluctantly, allow my child to use Mastodon when she is old enough for it. But I don't like her to have any interaction with Instagram, TikTok and similar.
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@evan No, but.
Social networkds are necessary for humans, and that is precisely what makes the abuse of "social networks" by bad actors all levels from local bully to megacorporation so pernicious.
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@evan I answered Yes, but. I think rather than social networks in their entirety it is algorithms designed to encourage addiction and amplifying harmful content that are most unhealthy (for everyone not just minors).
@alpinefolk @evan 100% agree!
