For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose.
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@codemonkeymike Older versions of Windows and Mac OS install on them anyway, too. (I'm typing this from a computer running Windows XP.)
@vwestlife @codemonkeymike I have tried that for my dad. Win 7 install worked fine, true, but then using it didn't... at all. Couldn't even get it to connect to WiFi and he works remotely, so he needs that. Maybe someone who's a computer person could have done it, but I'm not one, my dad even less so and can't afford to pay for that. So then Zorin OS it was. Everything I couldn't get working on Win 7 worked right out of the box. My dad has a working computer instead of a dead one.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike Upcycling computers is one of my big hobbies and that's usually how I get a computer.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
There's also special hardware that loses driver support on macOS and Windows. E.g. I don't dare to upgrade away from my MacBook Pro 2017 because it still runs with the RME Fireface 400 audio interface (using an adapter chain from Thunderbolt 3 to Firewire 400/800).
This thing also runs with Linux, but its internal hardware digital mixer is close to impossible to use with ffado-mixer, the Linux alternative. But it's better than not running it. Thunderbolt 4 is said not to be able to run this adapter chain any more.
In my main audio workstation I use UbuntuStudio and an RME digi9652 PCI card. The last Windows driver for that card is for Windows 7 32bit. Yes, this card is 20 years old now, but it is doing its job every day and an upgrade would not give me any benefit.
So, even Linux pro audio is not always easy, you can get very professional audio interfaces for cheap now used, like the Fireface 400, since they soon won't work anymore with more recent hardware and recent other OSses.
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Older versions of Windows are not an option. Since they don't receive updates anymore, they are open barndoors for malware.
Same is true for MacOS, of course. I have an old MacBook Air that needed to be converted to Linux once Apple stopped supporting it.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike I have a Mac Mini that's over a decade old that Apple hasn't supported since 2020. It's currently running Proxmox with a Home Assistant OS VM and an AlmaLinux VM on it.
Still runs like a total champ. -
For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike I got myself a 12 year old lill Surface Pro 3 at a "giveaway" price, tossed out Windows and set up linux.
This computer is doing more or less anything I need at the same speed as my way newer, more powerful desktop computer.
Given what I find of "old used" stuff online now, it makes me realize that I should never have bought that desktop computer.
I am never going to buy a new computer again.
I hate this "To beat windows, linux need to..." debate, because as you point out, it is not about what "OS is best" but what is sustainable.
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@codemonkeymike is this an example of "worse is better" ?
@hyc @codemonkeymike Especially "newer is not always better". ("Almost Human" was such a great TV Show.)
Windows 11's clarion call back in 2021 was "hardware vulnerabilities have changed the game." Here in 2026, AI backed exploits are impacting cybersecurity in a manner that resembles the rein of Caligula. Now consider the quantum computing threat that almost no one is talking about thanks to AI. This is essentially a promise of remaking encryption from the ground up... Making everything a degree harder and slower online for all.
No hardware choices are reasonably going to stop those issues.
Then throw in RAMpocalypse: Prices skyrocketing on storage and RAM, but not just RAM, CPU shortages are next. AI datacenters are eating up the consumer supply, threatening to destroy the entire tech market for computers below $500 (I'd argue $1,000 with Trump in office)... so it's all a wash anyway.
TL;DR: When the decision is "have a laptop that isn't perfect, or have nothing at all", fuck it. Keep going with Linux.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike
A fine conclusion: "This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste." -
For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
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@codemonkeymike Sometimes I feel like I live in a bubble. I teach kids (12-20), and by far the most of them have never even heard of Linux. It's win or mac for them - there is no third option
@oz1sej @codemonkeymike This failure rests on all our shoulders.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
It's time we show windows the door.
It's a castle made of sand, and I feel a wave of freedom coming.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike
Pixel 3a -> Ubuntu Touch
Surface Pro 3 -> Ubuntu 24.04
HP-ZBook -> Ubuntu 24.04On the Raspberry´s
NextCloud, pihole, Wireguard VPN, Trilium, Paperless ngx................. -
@thegardendude I put one together just for this purpose. Or something more mainstream like Linux mint.
@codemonkeymike @thegardendude
I am an experienced Linux user and excited about nixOS. Doesn't it require some scripting though, compared to other distros?
This looks very good. I hope you put together some more sections on the webpage, like a FAQ, describing how you have made it easier.I'm planning to derive a distro from nixOS, and replace the nix language with an existing, popular, battle-tested scripting language like Ruby or Perl. ( Ruling out Python & Raku ). This could drive adoption.
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@thegardendude
Coming from Windows, I found Linux Mint to make for an easy transition. If you're more used to the Mac OS, I've heard Ubuntu might be a good option (wasn't for me).I agree. I was also excited about Ubuntu, though they have added snap packages, and other proprietary extensions.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike I fully agree, but prefer FreeBSD when the computer is for my own use. Ubuntu desktop linux for other people because support is more available.
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@vwestlife @codemonkeymike I have tried that for my dad. Win 7 install worked fine, true, but then using it didn't... at all. Couldn't even get it to connect to WiFi and he works remotely, so he needs that. Maybe someone who's a computer person could have done it, but I'm not one, my dad even less so and can't afford to pay for that. So then Zorin OS it was. Everything I couldn't get working on Win 7 worked right out of the box. My dad has a working computer instead of a dead one.
@anatudor @vwestlife @codemonkeymike There is a whole generation of senior citizens who made the effort to achieve basic IT literacy around the early 2000s but have only ever used Windows. I find they are the most resistant to change, and will often cling stubbornly to old Windows installs packed with malware. In the end if you can get them to try something like an Xfce desktop with LibreOffice they will eventually feel right at home.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike try finding a 32-bit distribution that works. For some reason, distributions have abandonded 32-bit Linux, while many old PC's and laptops will only run that. I have a HP Notebook (formerly 32-bit 32 XP) and I still fail to find a working Linux distro.
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike You are generally right, of course, i also hate that Microsoft / Apple is doing this.
But there are still easy and not forbidden ways to install Win11 on older Machines and there is also a (kinda costy) Windows 10 LTSC version that is supported till 2032.
Also i have strong feelings against people who say that Linux makes an old system fast. That is often not the case, and after hearing this everywhere people keep posting frustated on our unix-board about their core2duo & co
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike I've worked with these folks and the first step is re-image them with Linux https://worldcomputerexchange.org/
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
Hi.
What's that "computer upcycle project" ?
