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  3. If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for.

If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for.

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  • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

    If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

    https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

    jernej__s@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jernej__s@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jernej__s@infosec.exchange
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #5

    @evacide

    3janeta@beige.party3 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

      @evacide One thing that struck me: for expert work in this sort of case, $475/hr is basically what you'd pay for an entry level expert (e.g., not someone with actual trial testimony experience). This is almost certainly not someone with a lot of experience, and it sounds like he's not going to have many opportunities to get more in the future.

      mattblaze@federate.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
      mattblaze@federate.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
      mattblaze@federate.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #6

      @evacide No one in high-stakes litigation wants a discount expert.

      stevebellovin@infosec.exchangeS 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

        @evacide One thing that struck me: for expert work in this sort of case, $475/hr is basically what you'd pay for an entry level expert (e.g., not someone with actual trial testimony experience). This is almost certainly not someone with a lot of experience, and it sounds like he's not going to have many opportunities to get more in the future.

        adamshostack@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
        adamshostack@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
        adamshostack@infosec.exchange
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #7

        @mattblaze @evacide

        "As an expert witness preparing for deposition, if someone asks me to agree to a number, should I answer "if you say so"?"

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

          If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

          https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

          A This user is from outside of this forum
          A This user is from outside of this forum
          agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #8

          @evacide I like the report of a lawyer who was found using an LLM, which relied on non-existent cases. The judge ordered him to a "show cause" hearing, for which he submitted...another filing written by his LLM.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

            If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

            https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

            epicdemiologist@wandering.shopE This user is from outside of this forum
            epicdemiologist@wandering.shopE This user is from outside of this forum
            epicdemiologist@wandering.shop
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #9

            @evacide Less unwieldy link to the USCSB video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFVUSDzHL8A

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

              If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

              https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

              tayyabsec@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
              tayyabsec@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
              tayyabsec@mastodon.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #10

              @evacide Relying on generative AI for expert reports poses significant risks to chain of custody and traceability, not to mention the danger of factual hallucinations. An expert's duty is independent, verifiable analysis, which cannot be substituted by algorithms lacking true understanding and provenance.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                @evacide No one in high-stakes litigation wants a discount expert.

                stevebellovin@infosec.exchangeS This user is from outside of this forum
                stevebellovin@infosec.exchangeS This user is from outside of this forum
                stevebellovin@infosec.exchange
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #11

                @mattblaze @evacide Oh, I once encountered one on the other side of a case I was involved in. His credentials alone were minimal, but he apparently knew how to forge evidence. At least, I couldn't come up with any other explanation for his report…

                mattblaze@federate.socialM 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • stevebellovin@infosec.exchangeS stevebellovin@infosec.exchange

                  @mattblaze @evacide Oh, I once encountered one on the other side of a case I was involved in. His credentials alone were minimal, but he apparently knew how to forge evidence. At least, I couldn't come up with any other explanation for his report…

                  mattblaze@federate.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mattblaze@federate.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mattblaze@federate.social
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #12

                  @SteveBellovin @evacide I hope he charged accordingly for such specialized services!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                    If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                    https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                    niall@mastodon.nzN This user is from outside of this forum
                    niall@mastodon.nzN This user is from outside of this forum
                    niall@mastodon.nz
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #13

                    @evacide FFS

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                      If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                      https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                      darryl_ramm@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                      darryl_ramm@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                      darryl_ramm@hachyderm.io
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #14

                      @evacide

                      KnightHawk Engineering, all parrot no hawk.

                      sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • barubary@infosec.exchangeB This user is from outside of this forum
                        barubary@infosec.exchangeB This user is from outside of this forum
                        barubary@infosec.exchange
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #15

                        @phaedral @evacide Found this in a header:

                        REPORTER'S RECORD
                        TRIAL COURT CAUSE NO. 2020-05505-A

                        KARYN LAAKE, INDIVIDUALLY
                        AND AS REPRESENTATIVE OF
                        THE ESTATE OF CATHERINE
                        LAAKE, DECEASED,
                        et al.

                        vs.

                        3M COMPANY

                        IN THE DISTRICT COURT
                        HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS
                        11TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT

                        Is that what you're looking for?

                        phaedral@beige.partyP 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • barubary@infosec.exchangeB barubary@infosec.exchange

                          @phaedral @evacide Found this in a header:

                          REPORTER'S RECORD
                          TRIAL COURT CAUSE NO. 2020-05505-A

                          KARYN LAAKE, INDIVIDUALLY
                          AND AS REPRESENTATIVE OF
                          THE ESTATE OF CATHERINE
                          LAAKE, DECEASED,
                          et al.

                          vs.

                          3M COMPANY

                          IN THE DISTRICT COURT
                          HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS
                          11TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT

                          Is that what you're looking for?

                          phaedral@beige.partyP This user is from outside of this forum
                          phaedral@beige.partyP This user is from outside of this forum
                          phaedral@beige.party
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #16

                          @barubary @evacide Thank you, that should do.me!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                            If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                            https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                            I This user is from outside of this forum
                            I This user is from outside of this forum
                            isol@mastodon.au
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #17

                            @evacide

                            How long before someone is exposed as using AI to present themselves as an expert witness in detecting AI use in expert testimony? 🤪

                            pseudonym@mastodon.onlineP 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • I isol@mastodon.au

                              @evacide

                              How long before someone is exposed as using AI to present themselves as an expert witness in detecting AI use in expert testimony? 🤪

                              pseudonym@mastodon.onlineP This user is from outside of this forum
                              pseudonym@mastodon.onlineP This user is from outside of this forum
                              pseudonym@mastodon.online
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #18

                              @isol @evacide

                              Takes one to know one, amirite?

                              (No, he was not right)

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                                If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                                https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                                worik@mastodon.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                                worik@mastodon.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                                worik@mastodon.social
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #19

                                @evacide That is really interesting

                                I read to the end, and changed my opinion as I did

                                The use of Gen AI was not unreasonable IMO so long as the "expert" is expert and stands behind the conclusion.

                                Writing these it is important to disclose the use of gen AI and be transparent with your process.

                                Using gen AI to search, collate and organize information is reasonable for an expert in the field

                                A non expert can be exposed with examination and gen AI will not help hide ignorance for long

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • evacide@hachyderm.ioE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  evacide@hachyderm.ioE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  evacide@hachyderm.io
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #20

                                  @Cassandra_Complex That is not at all what this story is about.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                                    If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                                    https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                                    dukeduke@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    dukeduke@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    dukeduke@mastodon.social
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #21

                                    @evacide "...and how my background and experience is well suited to render this professional opinion.”

                                    Except that it's CrapGPT's opinion, not yours, ya ham-brained bastard! 🙄

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • darryl_ramm@hachyderm.ioD darryl_ramm@hachyderm.io

                                      @evacide

                                      KnightHawk Engineering, all parrot no hawk.

                                      sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.io
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #22

                                      @darryl_ramm @evacide all night, no khawk 😂

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                                        If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                                        https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                                        professor_stevens@mastodon.gamedev.placeP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        professor_stevens@mastodon.gamedev.placeP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        professor_stevens@mastodon.gamedev.place
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #23

                                        @evacide

                                        Expert witness drafts are no longer subject to discovery in US federal court.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                                          If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                                          https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                                          penguin42@mastodon.org.ukP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          penguin42@mastodon.org.ukP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          penguin42@mastodon.org.uk
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #24

                                          @evacide I am a bit confused - what *was* the connection between 3M and Watson Grinding?

                                          tuban_muzuru@beige.partyT 1 Reply Last reply
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