I bought a car.
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco /headdesk
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco Does the Rav4 have a modem? Like my Honda—it will pop up a privacy message every time I start the car, but it can’t actually send data anywhere on its own—it relies on your phone, and that in turn requires you to have installed their app. So I just never installed the app. Did have to yell at the dealer until they agreed to remove the aftermarket KARR device that had a GPS in it though.
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This.
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco DeGoogle ur car too
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco I'm trying to explain that so much, recently a lot to government employees....
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco I bought a used Kia Soul EV. No doubt Kia are taking its every move but I haven't registered it with them or enabled the Kia app so I hope they can't track me personally. However, as it was bought from a used car place not a Kia dealer I had it serviced and checked over by an official dealer before the warranty ran out. So I suppose they might have notified Kia HQ about the new owner?
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco 可以试试中国的汽车
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco "You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account."
🥳🥳🥳🤪🤪🤪
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco@infosec.exchange Err... um... ah... I think I agree with
️or some such. I have no idea if this is a corporate training issue, or a personal knowledge issue... -
I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco er, why would you expect some magic solution from some overworked and underpaid first-line support person? Go and cut the cable if your new car (that I assume you chose?) is sending telemetry.
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@paco aaaaAAAAA
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
"Put me through to legal"
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@DamonHD AAAAAHH
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
If ordinary people don't even realize they're signing a contract, then the contract is arguably legally invalid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeting_of_the_minds
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@paco Does the Rav4 have a modem? Like my Honda—it will pop up a privacy message every time I start the car, but it can’t actually send data anywhere on its own—it relies on your phone, and that in turn requires you to have installed their app. So I just never installed the app. Did have to yell at the dealer until they agreed to remove the aftermarket KARR device that had a GPS in it though.
My 2025 Subaru Forester evidently has its own WIFI connection. You can pay a monthly fee to use it. But if you don’t, the car still keeps communicating with its master. Delightful. First new car I’ve ever owned that I will ditch before 50k miles.
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@paco Time to figure out where the modems/antennas are and disable them (unplug, remove, cut…).
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If ordinary people don't even realize they're signing a contract, then the contract is arguably legally invalid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeting_of_the_minds
Also, arbitration clauses in consumer-facing contracts are in my opinion unconscionable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability because I seriously doubt that most people understand that they're submitting to the jurisdiction of a blatantly-unfair kangaroo court with no right of appeal.
You're one of the very few who do understand what binding arbitration really means.
Unfortunately, courts do not, for the most part, agree with my opinion on this matter.
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@paco er, why would you expect some magic solution from some overworked and underpaid first-line support person? Go and cut the cable if your new car (that I assume you chose?) is sending telemetry.
@awfulwoman @paco In some cars (notably Teslas of all things), all of the telematics and Internet connectivity is on a single fuse. Pull it and the car continues to run, as it has to be capable of operation in places without cell phone service.
If this is not the case, there is usually a cable that can be unplugged, in some cases a physical SIM card that can not only be removed but repurposed, or some similar approach.
Having done this, NEVER let the dealer work on the car or they will likely reconnect it, harvest any saved data, and possibly even charge you for doing so. Any recall would have to be either done yourself, ignored, or done with the dealer told that NO other work is authorized no matter what. Then check this shit again afterwards.
A car with an all-on-one computer that refused to run without Internet connection would be scrap iron to me..
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@paco Agent lady, is this your first day on the internet???
@violenteastcoastcity @paco it must be a lady, right?
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco I bought a SEAT last year. The local dealer and VW Group UK (who 'are' SEAT) then shared my data without my permission, including with Seat in Spain.
Long story short, I asked SEAT to identify what telemetry my car collects and they are stonewalling me. I think the data is probably subject to GDPR as it is 'personal', but I cannot establish this. If anyone can help or offer insight on the data collected by the car, I would be very grateful and I can then approach the ICO.
