I bought a car.
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@paco Wow. I'm team toyota, but that's ridiculous. And for the agent to not understand that no, you absolutely DO sign a contract when you make ANY account.... yikes.
@paco Agent lady, is this your first day on the internet???
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco Time to figure out where the modems/antennas are and disable them (unplug, remove, cut…).
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco I wonder how Toyota head office feel about their customer service people giving legal advice?
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco /headdesk
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco Does the Rav4 have a modem? Like my Honda—it will pop up a privacy message every time I start the car, but it can’t actually send data anywhere on its own—it relies on your phone, and that in turn requires you to have installed their app. So I just never installed the app. Did have to yell at the dealer until they agreed to remove the aftermarket KARR device that had a GPS in it though.
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This.
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco DeGoogle ur car too
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco I'm trying to explain that so much, recently a lot to government employees....
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco I bought a used Kia Soul EV. No doubt Kia are taking its every move but I haven't registered it with them or enabled the Kia app so I hope they can't track me personally. However, as it was bought from a used car place not a Kia dealer I had it serviced and checked over by an official dealer before the warranty ran out. So I suppose they might have notified Kia HQ about the new owner?
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco 可以试试中国的汽车
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco "You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account."
🥳🥳🥳🤪🤪🤪
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco@infosec.exchange Err... um... ah... I think I agree with
️or some such. I have no idea if this is a corporate training issue, or a personal knowledge issue... -
I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
@paco er, why would you expect some magic solution from some overworked and underpaid first-line support person? Go and cut the cable if your new car (that I assume you chose?) is sending telemetry.
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@paco aaaaAAAAA
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
"Put me through to legal"
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@DamonHD AAAAAHH
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I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.
I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.
No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.
If ordinary people don't even realize they're signing a contract, then the contract is arguably legally invalid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeting_of_the_minds
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@paco Does the Rav4 have a modem? Like my Honda—it will pop up a privacy message every time I start the car, but it can’t actually send data anywhere on its own—it relies on your phone, and that in turn requires you to have installed their app. So I just never installed the app. Did have to yell at the dealer until they agreed to remove the aftermarket KARR device that had a GPS in it though.
My 2025 Subaru Forester evidently has its own WIFI connection. You can pay a monthly fee to use it. But if you don’t, the car still keeps communicating with its master. Delightful. First new car I’ve ever owned that I will ditch before 50k miles.
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@paco Time to figure out where the modems/antennas are and disable them (unplug, remove, cut…).
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If ordinary people don't even realize they're signing a contract, then the contract is arguably legally invalid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeting_of_the_minds
Also, arbitration clauses in consumer-facing contracts are in my opinion unconscionable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability because I seriously doubt that most people understand that they're submitting to the jurisdiction of a blatantly-unfair kangaroo court with no right of appeal.
You're one of the very few who do understand what binding arbitration really means.
Unfortunately, courts do not, for the most part, agree with my opinion on this matter.
