“We’re sending kids to school to memorize facts that ChatGPT can retrieve in under a second.”
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@landelare @stux These are not at all the same.
Use of an encyclopedia is an incredibly valuable academic and personal learning skill. The trash talk about Wikipedia was all olds shitting on youngs under the belief that something hardbound and written by old white guys and full of their biases was more proper and authoritative, not about learning methodology.
@dalias
They had issues with it being editable by anyone, who wasn't necessarily qualified. We physics students still used it like, personally I read the article then read the references and put the references in my bibliography but not the Wikipedia article. -
@stux they made me memorize foreign language words despite the fact that they are right over there in a dictionary. Why do I need them, that's beyond me!
@stux Why would I learn mathematics when I have a calculator? why would I learn to play guitar when I can just play a recording of someone playing? Wikipedia has all the knowledge so why bother
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@dalias
They had issues with it being editable by anyone, who wasn't necessarily qualified. We physics students still used it like, personally I read the article then read the references and put the references in my bibliography but not the Wikipedia article.@econads @landelare @stux There's a difference in the talking point they use to attack it and what their actual issue is. "Anyone can edit it" did not actually mean "it might contain errors or misinformation because of a recent edit that was misinformed or malicious". It meant "the wrong type of people" are involved in the writing. Yes, in that sense.
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“We’re sending kids to school to memorize facts that ChatGPT can retrieve in under a second.”
Yeah worst of all, gym classes are making them run a mile that Uber can cover in less than a minute@stux I recently went for a walk only to arrive right back at home. Turns out I could've simply stayed home and saved myself a good 30 minutes of time!
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“We’re sending kids to school to memorize facts that ChatGPT can retrieve in under a second.”
Yeah worst of all, gym classes are making them run a mile that Uber can cover in less than a minute@stux we are doing the same thing to science in the US
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@econads @landelare @stux There's a difference in the talking point they use to attack it and what their actual issue is. "Anyone can edit it" did not actually mean "it might contain errors or misinformation because of a recent edit that was misinformed or malicious". It meant "the wrong type of people" are involved in the writing. Yes, in that sense.
@econads @landelare @stux This is exactly the same reason the same people who were yelling at kids "don't trust what you read on the internet" are now trusting every piece of propaganda and slop in their Facebook feeds.
Then, "on the internet" meant queer anarchist hackers. Now it means "right wing disinformation machines".
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“We’re sending kids to school to memorize facts that ChatGPT can retrieve in under a second.”
Yeah worst of all, gym classes are making them run a mile that Uber can cover in less than a minute@stux also ChatGPT is *not* that fast
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“We’re sending kids to school to memorize facts that ChatGPT can retrieve in under a second.”
Yeah worst of all, gym classes are making them run a mile that Uber can cover in less than a minute@stux
I'm not going to take seriously the opinions of someone who thinks you go to school to "memorise facts" -
@Remittancegirl Oh yeah! Facts and such are so important
Basic knowledge
@stux @Remittancegirl especially when you're surrounded by nonsense that's being reproduced at light speed.
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@stux people who think school is just about memorising a long list of facts missed the whole point of school
@ASprinkleofSage @stux Tell that to my history teacher (in the 60s/70s)!
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@Remittancegirl Oh yeah! Facts and such are so important
Basic knowledge
Took me some years to actually argue like this:
"That one second for calling technology matters a lot. It just doesn't scale when you need to do THINKING work."
Sure this will hold only until neural interfaces become convenient.
By then we'll need new arguments because we fight new problems. -
“We’re sending kids to school to memorize facts that ChatGPT can retrieve in under a second.”
Yeah worst of all, gym classes are making them run a mile that Uber can cover in less than a minute@stux "facts"
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“We’re sending kids to school to memorize facts that ChatGPT can retrieve in under a second.”
Yeah worst of all, gym classes are making them run a mile that Uber can cover in less than a minute@stux while memorization does happen at school, "we're sending kids to school to memorize facts" is such a frustratingly limited view of actual education that it makes me ill just to read it
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@econads @landelare @stux There's a difference in the talking point they use to attack it and what their actual issue is. "Anyone can edit it" did not actually mean "it might contain errors or misinformation because of a recent edit that was misinformed or malicious". It meant "the wrong type of people" are involved in the writing. Yes, in that sense.
@dalias [ citation needed ]
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@stux Boy, does this ever reflect how little these people know about actual humans. The skill of memorisation is one that we use our entire lives, and develops a brain with more capacity and better recall. What you're actually memorising doesn't matter. It's the skill of doing it that matters.
@Remittancegirl @stux "What you're actually memorising doesn't matter." is how we get abusive, bullshit-riddled schools completely detached from their stated purpose. What you're learning matters! And if you're actually learning, you shouldn't have to go out of your way to memorize.
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Contrary to traditionalists' claims, rote memorization does not "train" the brain in a useful way that transfers. In fact, it can detract from higher-order thinking, not to mention how it wastes limited instructional time. And much of what kids are forced to commit to memory in a bunch-o'-facts curriculum is soon forgotten: https://www.alfiekohn.org/blogs/fuhgeddaboudit/
Where A.I. does prove harmful is in bypassing thinking, reading, researching, and writing. That's where the gym-class analogy makes sense.
@alfiekohn I'm amused by how everyone in this thread artfully calibrates the discussion to their own individual comfort level.
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@stux Boy, does this ever reflect how little these people know about actual humans. The skill of memorisation is one that we use our entire lives, and develops a brain with more capacity and better recall. What you're actually memorising doesn't matter. It's the skill of doing it that matters.
Yes.
Schools teach students how to learn and reason and interact with others while also exercising/stimulating connections in the brain.Learning fights incompetence and promotes social interactions which help people navigate their lives.
Incompetence results in doing things over again, and other things like donald.
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@Remittancegirl @stux "What you're actually memorising doesn't matter." is how we get abusive, bullshit-riddled schools completely detached from their stated purpose. What you're learning matters! And if you're actually learning, you shouldn't have to go out of your way to memorize.
@Remittancegirl @stux I'm sick and tired of apologism for torturous "education".
Especially the mass delusion of ill-defined nebulous positive side effects of torturous tedious memorization somehow making it the best way.
Those effects can be brought by any subject matter, there is no need for it to be bullshit that "doesn't matter" and sucks the soul out of every participant. -
@Remittancegirl @stux oh yes; I once complained as a student that they're teaching us things that were obsolete already or would become obsolete soon. I remember my later boss answering: "It's not important what you chew; the important thing is the training of your jaws…"
@blotosmetek @Remittancegirl @stux Literally arguing for lies in schools.
I'm blocking every nutcase in this thread, I can't take this shit.
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@ASprinkleofSage @stux Tell that to my history teacher (in the 60s/70s)!
@PaulNickson @ASprinkleofSage @stux School missed the whole point of school.
