CONTEXT
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@adriano @GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva
the arguments of toxic perfectionists like GhostOnTheHalfShell are not just foolishness in isolation
the real problem is how like here they go after EVs
they have to attack *better* because it's not *perfect*
!?
you see this constantly all over the left
these people are rat poison
in pursuit of purity, they fight better
thereby helping the status quo: the fossil fuel industry
they are an agent provocateur shill or a moron
@adriano @GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva @benroyce
Sadly, the people (in the US) for whom EVs would be an improvement are those least likely to afford them.I am thinking of all the gasoline cars that are owned by low-income people, that are paid off, sometimes barely run, and are, in some cases, actually being held together with duct tape and wire.
So all the middle-class+ folks can argue about EVs, while the rest of us just fill up our cars when we can afford to, and buy another roll of duct tape, and/or wire.*
* yes, one hose in my 2013 car is held together with duct tape. The parts and labor expense to replace it are out of my price range. I doubt I will ever own an EV, nor will many of my neighbors.
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@jwcph @benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva That is not what I said. It is the logic of your statement though. It is clear that government policies or even evil religions which encourage population growth and ban contraception are aiming in the opposite direction partly because the dominant economic models are derived from agrarian societies where more people could produce more so growth arose from growing population. Simple really.
STOP
Mama Gaya is enough.
the death cult of settler colonialist, extractivist capitalism is the problem.
there's a reason LAND REDISTRIBUTION WARS started after the wars of independence across all the Américas.
no nation can survive when capitalists control all the land. you cant cash crop ecosystems into profits without genocide and ecocide.
kill capalism to save us all.
malthusianism is eugenics & racist. deprogram that shit.
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malthusianism is eugenics which is always founded on racism.
if you agree with anything malthusian, i would suggest going into cult deprogramming therapy.
malthusianism ―like eugenics, like racism, like capitalism― is a death cult.
@blogdiva I don't usually go for absolutes, but this one I'm fairly certain proves true in practice. @mark @anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce
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@adriano @GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva @benroyce
Sadly, the people (in the US) for whom EVs would be an improvement are those least likely to afford them.I am thinking of all the gasoline cars that are owned by low-income people, that are paid off, sometimes barely run, and are, in some cases, actually being held together with duct tape and wire.
So all the middle-class+ folks can argue about EVs, while the rest of us just fill up our cars when we can afford to, and buy another roll of duct tape, and/or wire.*
* yes, one hose in my 2013 car is held together with duct tape. The parts and labor expense to replace it are out of my price range. I doubt I will ever own an EV, nor will many of my neighbors.
@c_merriweather @adriano @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva @benroyce I bought a nissan leaf 2013 about half a year ago. less than 70k km on the odometer, 90% original battery capacity. Cost me 4.5k. Saved me over 1k in gasoline so far
I think people aren't looking enough at the second hand EV market tbqh, which I get is scary cuz batteries and all, but that's not nearly as bad as it's been once. I kinda wish battery replacement services were more prevalent, because I know I you can triple the kWh.
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@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva there is also the consideration wrt the effects of vehicle exhaust. Unless the power plants are coal, that's a straight up win for the carbon cycle.
Of course the batteries have rare chemicals and extractive companies still come into play. But they are there for vehicles regardless.
@draNgNon @benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva And cobalt is used for refining gasoline as well as in lithium batteries
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@blogdiva
Didn't Maggie Thatcher sell them a significant part of our stake in the North Sea? -
malthusianism is eugenics which is always founded on racism.
if you agree with anything malthusian, i would suggest going into cult deprogramming therapy.
malthusianism ―like eugenics, like racism, like capitalism― is a death cult.
@blogdiva @mark @anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce
Sure "Malthusianism" starts with what everyone thinks is popularly known but then it descends into boring old statistics, economics, efforts to prevent starvation through parliament and conversations with Riccardo.
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STOP
Mama Gaya is enough.
the death cult of settler colonialist, extractivist capitalism is the problem.
there's a reason LAND REDISTRIBUTION WARS started after the wars of independence across all the Américas.
no nation can survive when capitalists control all the land. you cant cash crop ecosystems into profits without genocide and ecocide.
kill capalism to save us all.
malthusianism is eugenics & racist. deprogram that shit.
@blogdiva @ArchaeoIain @jwcph @benroyce
that’s right. Capitalism is the global supply chain. To break capitalism, de couple from the global supply chain. This is the most important problem to address.
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@c_merriweather @adriano @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva @benroyce I bought a nissan leaf 2013 about half a year ago. less than 70k km on the odometer, 90% original battery capacity. Cost me 4.5k. Saved me over 1k in gasoline so far
I think people aren't looking enough at the second hand EV market tbqh, which I get is scary cuz batteries and all, but that's not nearly as bad as it's been once. I kinda wish battery replacement services were more prevalent, because I know I you can triple the kWh.
Folks like me don't have $ to buy "new" cars, EV or not. Survivor's benefits are at poverty level.
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Folks like me don't have $ to buy "new" cars, EV or not. Survivor's benefits are at poverty level.
@c_merriweather @anthropy @adriano @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
sure but that's a different problem
massive subsidies for EV purchase would help
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Folks like me don't have $ to buy "new" cars, EV or not. Survivor's benefits are at poverty level.
@c_merriweather At that income level, these problems are best solved through clean public transport. I know it's very hard to achieve in the USA outside large cities, but that's happening right now here in Santiago de Chile: the bus fleet is modernizing with electric vehicles which are also much more comfortable. @anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva @benroyce
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @benroyce @blogdiva
I’m sorry Ghost, you’re wrong. You’ve been mislead by oil companies to confuse things like power and energy.
Try this video. But stop at the end-credits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQ9nt2ZeGM
For the rest of my people, watch the post-roll and put it on loop.
have watched that video. nowhere in it does he actually address the environmental destruction that comes from exponential growth extracting, aluminum, copper, silver, nickel, and lithium.
To extract and purify the resources is necessary to transform power generation requires destroying the planet in the process.
The resource extraction and refinement industry is no different than big oil.
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@c_merriweather At that income level, these problems are best solved through clean public transport. I know it's very hard to achieve in the USA outside large cities, but that's happening right now here in Santiago de Chile: the bus fleet is modernizing with electric vehicles which are also much more comfortable. @anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva @benroyce
@adriano @c_merriweather @anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
as an american, i envy the commitment to mass transit in other countries. the usa is really pathetic on this topic
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have watched that video. nowhere in it does he actually address the environmental destruction that comes from exponential growth extracting, aluminum, copper, silver, nickel, and lithium.
To extract and purify the resources is necessary to transform power generation requires destroying the planet in the process.
The resource extraction and refinement industry is no different than big oil.
Furthermore, he uses a false equivalence between lead recycling in lead acid batteries other technologies like PV or wind turbines.
These are not equivalent artifacts in terms of recycling. Building panels or turbines from new resources is less expensive than using recycled resources.
Extracting one material from these devices, usually precludes extracting other materials from these devices.
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Folks like me don't have $ to buy "new" cars, EV or not. Survivor's benefits are at poverty level.
@c_merriweather @adriano @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva @benroyce I 100% get how tough that is, I've been there too. But these days second hand EVs are as cheap as normal cars, with less maintenance and fuel costs. only issue is range on those older models but if you don't need more than 100km between charges they're more than fine. And for less than 500 you can build an offgrid solar setup to charge it a bit with (2.5kw panels + offgrid inverter + 500Wh battery). I wish I had this back then tbh
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@adriano @c_merriweather @anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
as an american, i envy the commitment to mass transit in other countries. the usa is really pathetic on this topic
@benroyce On the other hand, if they get it done in large metropolises like NYC, it will do *a lot*, I think. @c_merriweather @anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
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Furthermore, he uses a false equivalence between lead recycling in lead acid batteries other technologies like PV or wind turbines.
These are not equivalent artifacts in terms of recycling. Building panels or turbines from new resources is less expensive than using recycled resources.
Extracting one material from these devices, usually precludes extracting other materials from these devices.
On top of this, you cannot build solar panels without burning down old growth forest because you need the carbon from them in order to manufacture PV. This is one reason why Chinese PV are so inexpensive. They burn up tons of carbon and tons of old growth forest in order to manufacture these things..
The blind assertion that this is somehow less damaging is an assertion made without evidence.
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@benroyce On the other hand, if they get it done in large metropolises like NYC, it will do *a lot*, I think. @c_merriweather @anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
@adriano @c_merriweather @anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
as previous resident of midtown manhattan, and now living way out in western new york, you don't have to convince me
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On top of this, you cannot build solar panels without burning down old growth forest because you need the carbon from them in order to manufacture PV. This is one reason why Chinese PV are so inexpensive. They burn up tons of carbon and tons of old growth forest in order to manufacture these things..
The blind assertion that this is somehow less damaging is an assertion made without evidence.
So I’m going to ask you how tens of thousands of hectares of the natural do you think we can afford in order to not burn fossil fuels?
Fundamentally the mistaken assumption is that we can burn as much energy by changing our energy source and it will all work out.
This assertion is made without consider to whether or not the conversion itself can be born without killing the environment, so much that the outcome is no different than continuing to burn fossil fuels.
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So I’m going to ask you how tens of thousands of hectares of the natural do you think we can afford in order to not burn fossil fuels?
Fundamentally the mistaken assumption is that we can burn as much energy by changing our energy source and it will all work out.
This assertion is made without consider to whether or not the conversion itself can be born without killing the environment, so much that the outcome is no different than continuing to burn fossil fuels.
Too much is too much. This is the fundamental point nobody is willing to come to terms with seemingly.
It’s a transition in the same outcome is not transitioning. The solution is not to keep burning fossil fuels. The solution is to cut back..
There is no other choice, but to get rid of cars, for example
