It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus I guess we care about people who do good so we tell about were they fall short while people who don't do good we don't care so we ignore them.
not that it's good and we should support good.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus The people who come out of the woodwork to attack you and your efforts are doing it for psychological reasons that have little to do with you.
They need to feel better than someone and they're setting lofty goals. They think you're good enough to give them the boost they need, which is why they're on you instead of someone that does nothing for anyone but themselves. It's why they're picking you apart.
They're psychological vampires (demons) and you look yummy.
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this is huge and kills the left
1. there is someone who does something
2. there are people who think "doing something" means appointing themselves boss and micromanaging person 1. even more bizarre, they imagine themselves as somehow more authentic
they aren't doing anything at all except revealing they have no inclination to actually do something
if you are person #1, ignore person #2
if you are person #2, shut up, roll up your sleeves, and get to actual real work
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Wow this is really resonating with people, eh? Welcome followers
BTW I organise a really cool conference you should come
️ also to be clear, I posted this because I saw this happen (again) to someone else on Fedi, not because it happened to me. I have experienced this, but it doesn't happen too often. Partly because I'm very protective of that sort of thing, and immediately shut it down.
I will do a lot of open source and other volunteer work, it's always freely and joyfully given. But as soon as you come in with expectations or feel entitled to my time it's over in a heartbeat. I have zero fucks to give for that.
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it won't
the right has the reverse situation:
"ignore all flaws, and pour in eternal devotion"
the left meanwhile likes to nitpick itself to death on perfectionism and cynicism
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus Do you think this has to do with these people acting as 'consumers' instead of participants?
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@tiefling oh no, definitely not just techies. It's a very human tendency, "oh you think you're morally superior?"
@plexus @tiefling Someone here posted once that, "The world might be burning but at least I'm more moral than that guy."
It blew my mind. I said that needs to be on humanity's gravestone. My expansions sounded high and mighty, so I left them out, but I was actually seeing a very awful part of myself in that statement. Something I loath a great deal. And there it was ... just out and free having a fucking party.
No, really. People thought it was great. It was a Cybertruck driver so... v0v
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus@toot.cat
Hear me out: people are allowed to get critical ONLY AFTER sending a donation to the devs
I expect overall feedback to become much more constructive -
@plexus hn "well obv u aren't doing ALL of the things." Yessssh that.
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! There's a Wikipedia page on the Purity Spiral, but its quite meagre in information it provides. The purity spiral benefits opposite extremes, and is a perfect tool for the right as a weapon to sow division and strife. Just throw in the red meat and close the door, then take popcorn and watch the fight ensue..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_spiral
The one-sided description on this page is quite on the mark though:
> "Purity spiral" is a term for a form of infighting between activists and members of victim groups, in which they seek to outdo each other in zealotry. This self-reinforcing feedback loop is sometimes called "moral outbidding".
Ways to counteract the purity spiral involve the whole group being aware of the anti-pattern and be vocal together to bring back reason and calm. But many people often don't dare to counteract the agressive extremist and stay silent, which reinforces the vicious cycle. The extremist wields their own tools, like influence and peer pressure.
@smallcircles @benroyce @plexus My band once played a very muddy punk picnic at Marx Meadows in Golden Gate Park. A skinhead grabbed the mic while we were in between songs to talk about how anti-racist he was. A second skinhead grabbed the other mic to say that he was even more anti-racist. They really got into it, arguing over who was the least racist, until they were rolling in the mud punching each other and the show could go on.
There's a moral in there somewhere, I suppose. -
@smallcircles @benroyce @plexus My band once played a very muddy punk picnic at Marx Meadows in Golden Gate Park. A skinhead grabbed the mic while we were in between songs to talk about how anti-racist he was. A second skinhead grabbed the other mic to say that he was even more anti-racist. They really got into it, arguing over who was the least racist, until they were rolling in the mud punching each other and the show could go on.
There's a moral in there somewhere, I suppose.@tito_swineflu @benroyce @plexus
Yea, I've witnessed the equivalent of that online too, unfortunately.
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Wow this is really resonating with people, eh? Welcome followers
BTW I organise a really cool conference you should come
️ @plexus What a necessary conference. If it were easier for me to get to Europe I’d be there. We need it here in the USA too…
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
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@tito_swineflu @benroyce @plexus
Yea, I've witnessed the equivalent of that online too, unfortunately.
@tito_swineflu @benroyce @plexus
Oh, btw, I wrote a couple of years ago about the Purity Spiral, on the Humane Tech Community forum, fyi:
https://community.humanetech.com/t/social-media-and-purity-spirals/5263
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@tobyjaffey @plexus The best defense is a good offence, and when someone makes you feel morally inferior, when moral purity is your only thing... it's easier to show they aren't pure after all, rather than doing self improvement.
I thankfully don't actually get this much with the stuff I'm working on. People just say thank you, surprisingly. I think it's because everyone I interact with is donating time and data.
Giving people a very easy way to help may reduce the amount of this you get.
@theeclecticdyslexic @tobyjaffey @plexus Being someone who doesn't drink has similar effects some places.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus an excellent analysis of Teresa of Avila* in her autobiography: for a soul such as this will have a thousand eyes on it. While a thousand souls of a baser nature will not have a single one
*First doctoress of the church
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@plexus @tiefling Someone here posted once that, "The world might be burning but at least I'm more moral than that guy."
It blew my mind. I said that needs to be on humanity's gravestone. My expansions sounded high and mighty, so I left them out, but I was actually seeing a very awful part of myself in that statement. Something I loath a great deal. And there it was ... just out and free having a fucking party.
No, really. People thought it was great. It was a Cybertruck driver so... v0v
@crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling Extends also to politics. Insignificant issues are blown out of proportion for the Green parties, conservatives with mud still sticking to their boots benefit. This is also why there is Trump. Standards were at an impossible level for Kamala Harris, and 40 % decided not to vote at all.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus One could just reply with something like "You're not my employer, this is volunteer work, fuck off"
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@crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling Extends also to politics. Insignificant issues are blown out of proportion for the Green parties, conservatives with mud still sticking to their boots benefit. This is also why there is Trump. Standards were at an impossible level for Kamala Harris, and 40 % decided not to vote at all.
@xenophyte @plexus @tiefling They ran a really dumb campaign and she really wasn't anything to be happy about. The best thing she had going for her was that she wasn't Trump or some other hate filled crazy person.
I think they're short sighted maybe but I can't blame people who just can't get excited about the controlled opposition, and that's what she represented. Should have voted for her anyway but ...
