A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement.
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@FreakyFwoof @stefano Just out of curiosity, what is it you charge for? What's your expertese?
@rooktallon @FreakyFwoof it depends - not a "x per hour" rate. We have an agreement for server management, backups, monitoring, etc.
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@stefano Holy shit..
That required some digital balls right there
I do not have the patience you have sir, my respect!
@stux thanks. Yes, I'm quite patient, but sometimes my patience is not enough
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano I think the price goes up, no?
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
An unbelievable thing for folk to do and certainly would feel like a slap ( slop ) in the face.
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano I learned, way before LLM and spicy auto-complete were "things", to never shave my price without a shaving in scope too.
When I do fee estimates they are very detailed, most in my industry don't share that, but I do.
So if they ask me to "find" $500, I will ask where they want to cut back.
Most times they don't, and hire me anyway. When they don't, its not personal, they just have different priorities.
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@stefano back when I was consulting I had two rates, one for going with me first, a higher one for going with someone cheaper and then coming back to me to fix it.
I was very clear and transparent and up front with potential customers on any first sales call. Some came back and paid the rate and turned into great customers, some didn't and I'm happy for both outcomes.
My go-to quote was "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
@jaz @stefano Yes, exactly that.
One should now have *three* tiers of rates:
Cheapest: I built the whole system from scratch.
Expensive: I "just finish off" this system that the under-bidder has "nearly completed".
Enough to retire on: I have a look at ANY system which has had ANY AI input (but without any promise that I, or indeed anyone else, can EVER fix it).
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano Not surprised. Every throw money at AI instead of knowledgeable people decision has backfired.
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano I think maybe you should take this as a learning experience. When someone asks you to reduce your pay to increase their own profit, but put it in mealy mouthed bullshit framing to manipulate your empathy, you'll recognize it for what it is and nope the fuck out BEFORE getting screwed.
Silver lining.
I probably would have ate that bullshit too. Thanks for sharing your lesson.
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
that's pretty cheeky
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I mean, knowing that someone is using ChatGPT to go in and monkey with their infrastructure makes it much more likely that they're going to screw it up in obscure, senseless, and harder to fix ways.
That's a good argument for charging then a higher rate. "Working along side GenAI" is a higher-tier service - I'll provide it, but it costs.
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano I have ditched a ton of clients for exactly these reasons this year
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@zleap people think they can replace competence and experience with AI, without knowing what they're doing. This way, they're causing a lot of damage, because the AI will always have an apparently perfect solution. Apparently is the key, here.
@stefano
AI doesn't have any understanding. Depending on the context, it pieces things together in the way most likely to provide a solution to the problem. And normally you can work with it. But there is no understanding of the problem. Also many critics don't get this.
Don't get me wrong—I use it, and it makes my work easier in many ways. But there are still those moments where the result is total BS and where you need to understand it to know that it is BS.
@zleap -
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano unfortunately, all clients are using some sort of AI system - and it's worse when they use the free plan without logging in.
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano I expect this to happen a lot, and you should have just suggested that your prices now go up -
A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano classic slop & swap tactic
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano A very telling case. A lot of companies today confuse automation with completely replacing expertise. AI is great for speeding up processes, but responsibility and understanding the business context still remain with people
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A few months ago, a client asked me to shave about €200 a month off our agreement. "We’re trying to cut back on expenses", he said, "to boost our cash flow." I was hesitant, but hey, I agreed.
Fast forward to this morning: one of his team members calls me asking for help because - and I quote - "both Claude and ChatGPT are giving me answers that just don't feel right."
I asked for a little context, only to find out they had upgraded to the top-tier plans for both AIs so they could "solve problems on their own without bothering me."
So, I dropped my client a line: we either revert to our original agreement, or we wrap up this collaboration effective immediately.
Asking me for a discount just to throw far more money at AI subscriptions - only to call me anyway when the bots fail - is, to say the least, a slap (or slop?) in the face.
@stefano I work with a band under the Frequency Fault umbrella (audio engineer). We all hate AI and refuse to even touch it willfully. I am Pro Tools (it's a digital audio workstation) certified and they add all these partnerships with AI "solutions" as bloat and I'm like "bitches, I can edit using key strokes faster than AI can figure out what's even going on, fuck off".
I refuse to work with any artist who uses AI in their creative process in any way. Period. I'd rather go broke. Lol
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@stefano I work with a band under the Frequency Fault umbrella (audio engineer). We all hate AI and refuse to even touch it willfully. I am Pro Tools (it's a digital audio workstation) certified and they add all these partnerships with AI "solutions" as bloat and I'm like "bitches, I can edit using key strokes faster than AI can figure out what's even going on, fuck off".
I refuse to work with any artist who uses AI in their creative process in any way. Period. I'd rather go broke. Lol
The reality is that at a certain point you need knobs and sliders, or numerical control, the prompt interface might be good to draft an idea, but it can't give you control. Eventually they will accept to make GenAI tools that produce parametric output, otherwise any professional will gradually stop to use them after the initial curiosity.
