Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research.
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Genetics show a surge c. 3,000 BCE of Yamnaya & other Western Steppe Herders (WSH) into much of Europe, displacing (raping? slaughtering? outcompeting?) original inhabitants. (And spreading WSH's Proto-Indo-European language.)
"The expansion of WSHs resulted in the virtual disappearance of the Y-DNA of Early European Farmers (EEFs) from the European gene pool, significantly altering the cultural and genetic landscape of Europe."
@BobDevney @mrundkvist
Well, probably if you go back far enough Europe was populated after the Ice Age by migrating humans.
Humans in the Americas came from Asia.
Likely people originated from Africa.The European invasion & colonisation of the Americas and Australia / Aotearoa and Hawai'i are in recent times. And they brought disease, deliberately and accidentality.
Much later than English Annexations of Wales & Ireland.
It was CapitalismComparisons to Neolithic migrations are not relevant.
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Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
@mrundkvist I knew about a lot of migrations everywhere but I didn't know that there was such an early and desastrous plague wave.
Does it mean that the newcomers were more resistant against the plague? -
Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
@mrundkvist
Do you have any recommendations for a book that includes this sort of modern info? -
@mrundkvist
Do you have any recommendations for a book that includes this sort of modern info?@dlakelan
Sadly no -- I rarely have any good recommendations for popular books in my field since I'm busy reading journal papers!
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@mrundkvist
Do you have any recommendations for a book that includes this sort of modern info?@dlakelan I read J.P. Mallory's 'In Search of the Indo-Europeans' years ago, found it fascinating. Would be interested to learn how ancient DNA research has corroborated or falsified the view Mallory advanced. @mrundkvist
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@dlakelan I read J.P. Mallory's 'In Search of the Indo-Europeans' years ago, found it fascinating. Would be interested to learn how ancient DNA research has corroborated or falsified the view Mallory advanced. @mrundkvist
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@raymaccarthy
Indeed, there have been many plague epidemics. But nothing like what cut off genetic continuity in the Middle Neolithic of Scandinavia, with the arrival of the Corded Ware.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture#Genetic_studies
@mrundkvist @raymaccarthy the way we define historic people's by their pottery like this (see also the funnel beaker people). I wonder, are we the IKEA people?
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@dlakelan
Sadly no -- I rarely have any good recommendations for popular books in my field since I'm busy reading journal papers!@mrundkvist @dlakelan would the books by Alice Roberts work as an answer to this question?
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@BobDevney @mrundkvist
Well, probably if you go back far enough Europe was populated after the Ice Age by migrating humans.
Humans in the Americas came from Asia.
Likely people originated from Africa.The European invasion & colonisation of the Americas and Australia / Aotearoa and Hawai'i are in recent times. And they brought disease, deliberately and accidentality.
Much later than English Annexations of Wales & Ireland.
It was CapitalismComparisons to Neolithic migrations are not relevant.
@raymaccarthy @BobDevney @mrundkvist But OP is *about* Neolithic migrations?
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Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
@mrundkvist wow. What sources do you recommend read to learn more about this?
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@mrundkvist
Citations?There was massive population loss from plagues, more than once.
But not population replacement.
Normans invaded Anglo Saxon "England" in 1066, but were never more than a small percentage of population.Iceland is Scandinavian mixed with Celts (either captured or Emigrated).
Celts are originally from Central Asia (last I heard anyway. I'm sure folks will let me know if there is newer news!)
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@mrundkvist wow. What sources do you recommend read to learn more about this?
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@mrundkvist I knew about a lot of migrations everywhere but I didn't know that there was such an early and desastrous plague wave.
Does it mean that the newcomers were more resistant against the plague?Maybe not. But the plague is a zoonotic disease, a change in the rodent population can very effectively stop a plague wave. But we don't really know why and how a plague pandemic ends.
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@raymaccarthy @BobDevney @mrundkvist But OP is *about* Neolithic migrations?
@datarama
True. The Scandy Neolithic is c. 4000-1700 cal BC. The Corded Ware arrives c. 2800. -
Celts are originally from Central Asia (last I heard anyway. I'm sure folks will let me know if there is newer news!)
@NilaJones @raymaccarthy
No. Ireland is heavily dominated by the R1b haplotype, just like Britain. It's the Corded Ware / Bell Beaker guys there too, from Ukraine. -
@NilaJones @raymaccarthy
No. Ireland is heavily dominated by the R1b haplotype, just like Britain. It's the Corded Ware / Bell Beaker guys there too, from Ukraine.I appreciate you sharing your knowledge here!
I wasn't asking that Ireland, but rather about the celts specifically, who I understood came originally from Central Asia, and then into Hungary, and then I think Eastern France, and then up into Ireland
Leaving red-headed populations in each area
But maybe this was a lot later historically? Or just wrong? I think I'm getting most of this from an old documentary on public TV
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I appreciate you sharing your knowledge here!
I wasn't asking that Ireland, but rather about the celts specifically, who I understood came originally from Central Asia, and then into Hungary, and then I think Eastern France, and then up into Ireland
Leaving red-headed populations in each area
But maybe this was a lot later historically? Or just wrong? I think I'm getting most of this from an old documentary on public TV
@NilaJones
Nope, that was an old pre-DNA hypothesis regarding the Tocharians and Tarim Basin mummies. -
@NilaJones
Nope, that was an old pre-DNA hypothesis regarding the Tocharians and Tarim Basin mummies.Thank you very much!
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Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
@mrundkvist Huh. Perhaps of interest: according to Eckert et al in *Korea, Old and New: A History*, "comb-pattern pottery" appears on the Korean peninsula circa 4000 BCE. In addition, it's also found in Siberia, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, and Japan.
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@mrundkvist
Citations?There was massive population loss from plagues, more than once.
But not population replacement.
Normans invaded Anglo Saxon "England" in 1066, but were never more than a small percentage of population.Iceland is Scandinavian mixed with Celts (either captured or Emigrated).
@raymaccarthy @mrundkvist Thing is, the Scandinavians who eventually settled Iceland aren't descended from the Paleolithic Scandinavians who hunted reindeer in southern Scandinavia 10000 years ago. They (and all other currently-living Scandinavians, myself included) are descended from Neolithic steppe nomads who moved in from Western Asia and apparently completely wiped out the descendants of those reindeer hunters - likely mainly by plague, but possibly also with violence.
