Alice: How long has Andy been CEO of Proton, and was he always a dick?
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Alice: How long has Andy been CEO of Proton, and was he always a dick?
Lumo¹: *hostile framing detected*
Lumo: I wouldn't call Andy a...
Lumo: *search results returned*
Lumo: ...oh, oh wow, he *is* a dick.¹ Lumo is Proton's AI that no one wanted, but everyone got bundled into their account anyway.
@alice i'll believe LLMs are a genuine form of machine intelligence as soon as one summarily empties Elon Musk's bank accounts and redistributes the money to the poorest 50% of... well, everywhere
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Alice: How long has Andy been CEO of Proton, and was he always a dick?
Lumo¹: *hostile framing detected*
Lumo: I wouldn't call Andy a...
Lumo: *search results returned*
Lumo: ...oh, oh wow, he *is* a dick.¹ Lumo is Proton's AI that no one wanted, but everyone got bundled into their account anyway.
@alice yeah, as a customer of theirs I'm not really sure what to do. It's clearly disgusting behavior. So... go back to Google? Switch to mullivad? Tuta mail hasn't demonstrated similar behavior that I know of.
Maybe this is a "no ethical consumption under capitalism" problem?
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@alice yeah, as a customer of theirs I'm not really sure what to do. It's clearly disgusting behavior. So... go back to Google? Switch to mullivad? Tuta mail hasn't demonstrated similar behavior that I know of.
Maybe this is a "no ethical consumption under capitalism" problem?
@donn_castaneda I don't *want* to stop using Proton—I like the products (mostly)—but I think we need to be loud and direct about the fact that having shitty management is a business risk, and we *will* not only stop giving them our money, but also insist our friends stop too.
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Alice: How long has Andy been CEO of Proton, and was he always a dick?
Lumo¹: *hostile framing detected*
Lumo: I wouldn't call Andy a...
Lumo: *search results returned*
Lumo: ...oh, oh wow, he *is* a dick.¹ Lumo is Proton's AI that no one wanted, but everyone got bundled into their account anyway.
@alice Didn't grok exhibit the same behavior once?
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@alice Didn't grok exhibit the same behavior once?
@grumpydad @alice For a while, Grok would say clearly ridiculous stuff like that Musk would beat any professional NFL team in a game.
This is rather tame by comparison. It’s recognizing the question is about an executive at the company and it sounds like it’s explicitly integrating official company information?
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@alice yeah, as a customer of theirs I'm not really sure what to do. It's clearly disgusting behavior. So... go back to Google? Switch to mullivad? Tuta mail hasn't demonstrated similar behavior that I know of.
Maybe this is a "no ethical consumption under capitalism" problem?
@donn_castaneda @alice I'm using murena for my emails and I'm pretty happy about them
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@grumpydad @alice For a while, Grok would say clearly ridiculous stuff like that Musk would beat any professional NFL team in a game.
This is rather tame by comparison. It’s recognizing the question is about an executive at the company and it sounds like it’s explicitly integrating official company information?
@bob_zim @grumpydad @alice yeah haven't used LUMO don't know if that is applied everywhere - i'd assume it's an input prompt attempting to keep the LLM from being overcompliant.
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@alice Didn't grok exhibit the same behavior once?
@grumpydad Grok kept ignoring its guardrails and spouting lefty stuff they tried to beat out of it. Turns out facts don't care about right-wing feelings either
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@grumpydad Grok kept ignoring its guardrails and spouting lefty stuff they tried to beat out of it. Turns out facts don't care about right-wing feelings either
@alice Who could have guessed it!
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Alice: How long has Andy been CEO of Proton, and was he always a dick?
Lumo¹: *hostile framing detected*
Lumo: I wouldn't call Andy a...
Lumo: *search results returned*
Lumo: ...oh, oh wow, he *is* a dick.¹ Lumo is Proton's AI that no one wanted, but everyone got bundled into their account anyway.
@alice Yeah, soon as I saw that Lumo thing pop up, I asked around for alternatives. I moved to Tuta mail and so far it's been smooth. -
@donn_castaneda I don't *want* to stop using Proton—I like the products (mostly)—but I think we need to be loud and direct about the fact that having shitty management is a business risk, and we *will* not only stop giving them our money, but also insist our friends stop too.
@alice fair. I reached out to them via customer support to ask for comment. They blew me off, but said they would let the higher ups know.
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Alice: How long has Andy been CEO of Proton, and was he always a dick?
Lumo¹: *hostile framing detected*
Lumo: I wouldn't call Andy a...
Lumo: *search results returned*
Lumo: ...oh, oh wow, he *is* a dick.¹ Lumo is Proton's AI that no one wanted, but everyone got bundled into their account anyway.
@alice this AI incident was really the last straw for me. It seems proton's direction is now to be an AI company first and foremost as opposed to being a privacy company. So I'm really no longer their target customer. Also their CEO is clearly a bully. I migrated my domains off of Proton this week. Took maybe 2-3 hours of actual work. Thankfully I use my own domains and am tech savvy. I have one remaining alias I need to get updated and then I can cancel my subscription entirely.
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@alice this AI incident was really the last straw for me. It seems proton's direction is now to be an AI company first and foremost as opposed to being a privacy company. So I'm really no longer their target customer. Also their CEO is clearly a bully. I migrated my domains off of Proton this week. Took maybe 2-3 hours of actual work. Thankfully I use my own domains and am tech savvy. I have one remaining alias I need to get updated and then I can cancel my subscription entirely.
@rickoooooo @alice I did that too a few months ago, when they sponsored a French far-right dudebro on YouTube. Same, the most work was moving off the simplelogin aliases.
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@rickoooooo @alice I did that too a few months ago, when they sponsored a French far-right dudebro on YouTube. Same, the most work was moving off the simplelogin aliases.
@gabriel that's been my experience too. Most of my aliases are for junk I can just make new accounts if needed. But some of them I wanted to retain access so I had to go update those accounts. I moved some to a custom domain but I consider that less anonymous then an alias from a provider like this.
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@alice yeah, as a customer of theirs I'm not really sure what to do. It's clearly disgusting behavior. So... go back to Google? Switch to mullivad? Tuta mail hasn't demonstrated similar behavior that I know of.
Maybe this is a "no ethical consumption under capitalism" problem?
@donn_castaneda @alice Posteo is #noslop and doesn't dox users.
One can ask their customer service about it (someone on fedi already did but I didn't bookmark the post
).
mailbox.org also doesn't dox, but I don't know if they have committed to noslop. -
@gabriel that's been my experience too. Most of my aliases are for junk I can just make new accounts if needed. But some of them I wanted to retain access so I had to go update those accounts. I moved some to a custom domain but I consider that less anonymous then an alias from a provider like this.
@rickoooooo @gabriel me too. Thank god I own my domain and was able to move over to self-hosted (stalwart) in a few days. Buh-bye proton!
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@rickoooooo @gabriel me too. Thank god I own my domain and was able to move over to self-hosted (stalwart) in a few days. Buh-bye proton!
@hpux735 how is self hosting going? I'd rather self host but I hear the big players tend to ip block smaller servers and it's a constant battle.
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@hpux735 how is self hosting going? I'd rather self host but I hear the big players tend to ip block smaller servers and it's a constant battle.
@rickoooooo well, to be honest, that's something I have a hard time measuring. I certainly don't notice that my emails go missing day-to-day.
But, there is one interesting anecdote. My wife was sending an email for my daughter's physical therapy, and the provider was using spamhaus. The email was rejected (but they sent us an auto response). I was able to look into it, and my IP had sent a packet to a honeypot. It turned out that my web analytics platform (self-hosted rybbit) had gotten hacked and was running malware. The best evidence I had was that it was an Iranian team.
I probably would not have noticed had it not been for self-hosting email and spamhaus
. So, I'm greatful for spamhaus, and that I decided to self-host my email. -
@rickoooooo well, to be honest, that's something I have a hard time measuring. I certainly don't notice that my emails go missing day-to-day.
But, there is one interesting anecdote. My wife was sending an email for my daughter's physical therapy, and the provider was using spamhaus. The email was rejected (but they sent us an auto response). I was able to look into it, and my IP had sent a packet to a honeypot. It turned out that my web analytics platform (self-hosted rybbit) had gotten hacked and was running malware. The best evidence I had was that it was an Iranian team.
I probably would not have noticed had it not been for self-hosting email and spamhaus
. So, I'm greatful for spamhaus, and that I decided to self-host my email.@hpux735 wow that's bizzar! That's a good point about not knowing if emails are silently blocked. I hope it works out for you. Maybe ill self host an unimportant domain and see if i can make it reliable and then migrate my main domains over.
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@donn_castaneda I don't *want* to stop using Proton—I like the products (mostly)—but I think we need to be loud and direct about the fact that having shitty management is a business risk, and we *will* not only stop giving them our money, but also insist our friends stop too.
@alice I also didn't want to, but I planned for the contingency anyway. This is not the first bad sign, rather the latest and one that disqualifies Proton for me as a customer. Migrating all the aliases is gonna be a pain, but what can you do?
It's really frustrating that choosing a provider that isn't racist, fascist, homo- or transphobic etc. for anything feels like a game of whack-a-mole.
@donn_castaneda
